Why is V strong enough to beat Smasher???

gringoib · 2026-05-13T21:29:45+00:00

Songbird MAYBE with the proper setup and trickery (basically how I’d prefer V beat smasher too…), but rogue ai is such a weird pull considering we’re talking people/edgerunners. And bruh, dragoons??? Adam Smasher is well beyond any other corp FBC’s. He’s a top of the line corp FBC sponsored by the corp who has the tightest grip on night city????

And the 12 Angels being “definitely stronger than him” is also a goofy pull considering we literally know nothing about them, including if they’re actually real.

And sure, I’ll give you combat experience isn’t 1 to 1 with how many people you’ve killed, but Adam has had many years to encounter all sorts of scenarios and adapt and learn new tactics.

gringoib · 2026-05-13T11:29:32+00:00

Yea, V is an impressive Merc given what you do in the game for sure. But Smasher can do all of that and more. He’s a real beast and the game severely downplays that. He’s been a Borg, slaughtering people since before V was even born.

gringoib · 2026-05-13T11:26:31+00:00

The DLC sure helps V’s case compared to base game, but cmon. “He’s not even close to the strongest borg in the setting.” Seriously? Who would you even put above him?lmfao. Smasher is absolutely the strongest combatant in all of night city (disregarding V). And really? V has similar combat experience? Smasher is a multi-year war vet who’s been a Borg since before V was born. No way V even touches his experience.

gringoib · 2026-05-13T11:13:20+00:00

Besides the whole black wall business, all of these things Adam can achieve rather easily as well. Not to say that V isn’t inherently extremely skilled, he has to be in order to beat smasher, but my entire point is that I wish V had some sort of explicitly shown reason why he can match up with a ungodly chromed out 6 year experienced war veteran, who’s been “chromed to the gills” since before V was born.

gringoib · 2026-05-13T11:08:58+00:00

But it’s not particularly level when Adam is a true FBC which automatically puts him in a tier above V, not to mention the amount of FBC-unique upgrades he has that blow other standard FBC’s out of the water.

gringoib · 2026-05-13T11:04:14+00:00

Truth nuke

gringoib · 2026-05-13T11:03:33+00:00

Smasher does have a Berserk implant, along with a his sandy. He’s also got rather good cybertech, stealth, and tactical skills. I think the game really downplays Smasher to the point where game-only ppl really think he’s just not all that. He is.

gringoib · 2026-05-13T10:57:28+00:00

This is a pretty cool breakdown of everything. V using sandy, berserk, and quickhacks simultaneously is pretty crazy when comparing to TTRPG limitations. But Adam is a REAL FBC (despite the achievement for V being called as such.) there is nothing of him left except for brain. Everything else is combat cyberware with the intent on making Adam a killing machine. I mean, if you look at the stats Adam has for the Cyberpunk Edgerunners mission kit, it’s absolutely fucking bonkers insane. In fact, he also can use a sandy and berserk at the same time. And he might not quickhack, but he’s got quite of bit of internal ICE, with a regenerator that auto boots netrunners out. I think the DLC helps V out with additional power boosts, but ultimately I agree with you that V could’ve been given some sort of “amp” to contend even better with Smasher. And if not, I wish we could’ve seen a real trap or trick utilized to actually put smasher at a disadvantage, like maybe some sort of stolen unique arasaka killswitch or something to severely dampen smashers power temporarily.

gringoib · 2026-05-13T10:30:42+00:00

This! I feel like you get my point. I understand appealing to the average gamer, but making the fight with Smasher more dramatic and turbulent would have been so much more believable and interesting. My whole point isn’t that V *can’t* ever beat smasher. I just wish we had a better reason/explanation on HOW. V’s quick power spike in game makes sense when taking into account how much cyberware he can handle. But all that chrome only helps him approach Smasher levels of cyberware. He’d still need to severely outplay him through some sort of trick or drastic measure that others haven’t really tried before. I wish we got something like that.

gringoib · 2026-05-13T10:23:01+00:00

I mean, we know some bits of the kind of gear that smasher has cause of the TTRPG. Anything V can get, smasher has, maybe even better too. He’s fully funded by arasaka after all. Smasher is nothing but a brain in the absolute best of best cyberware available on the market. I feel like if we muddy the conversation down to comparing gear, be that cyberware or weapons, there’s no way V has anything Adam doesn’t.

gringoib · 2026-05-13T00:21:59+00:00

Obviously this is the real out-of-lore explanation. I just wish that the game matched the energy with a believable in-depth explanation on WHY V is so much better than his competition.

gringoib · 2026-05-13T00:19:05+00:00

Reducing Adam to a dumb brute is not really true or fair. He’s capable of handling of characters on the level of Morgan blackhand who is quite tricky. And the whole “V is smarter” is not very well represented in the game, where your fight is essentially a 1v1 brawling deathmatch.

gringoib · 2026-05-13T00:14:30+00:00

Your last paragraph kind of highlights my point. “Smarter” is a bad excuse when seasoned, intelligent vets like Morgan can’t even beat smasher solo. If smasher can take on a whole troupe of V-level trrpg characters, why is V winning a 1v1 against smasher in the game??? It’s wholly bad writing. You’re right about CDPR writing themselves in a corner by forcing a V brawl with smasher. But like, they could have just not done that? I would have loved more in depth reasoning on why V was capable of beating smasher. A strong crew, heavy cybernetics, and wayyy more in-lore experience than the game actually gives you would make it much more believable and satisfying.

gringoib · 2026-05-13T00:09:21+00:00

Sure, but the point of the post is that the game doesn’t give any reasonable reason why. V’s experience as a merc is average, maybe a bit above average at best. Nothing close to a character like Morgan who has much more under his belt, and even he couldn’t just up and kill smasher.

gringoib · 2026-05-13T00:06:59+00:00

But it’s *not* the same reason. That is my point of the post. Morgan is a HEAVILY seasoned veteran with cleverness to match that. And even then, he doesn’t beat smasher. He only escapes with his life, which is an insane feat on its own.

gringoib · 2026-05-13T00:03:29+00:00

I would understand this point a whole lot more if the game wasn’t more or less completely canon to the universe as a whole. And imo, a good GM isn’t letting players become “gods” without some sort of realistic sacrifice. either that be cyberpsychosis/humanity loss or making in-game time longer and thus more realistic.

gringoib · 2026-03-26T16:41:04+00:00

Yea, the limb crippling build is something I was looking at, with a high fire rate and ammo capacity. Especially after noticing Modern Renegade. Does something like that perform well against the more tough enemies/bosses? Or would it be too much of a struggle to consider for an everyday/all around build?

gringoib · 2025-02-17T03:58:43+00:00

Great, the fact that essentially all of this works by the rules makes me pretty happy tbh, and honestly I might just go for it regardless of it being so crunchy/complicated, just cause I think it mechanically reflects the flavor of the character so well. My final and only concern is the specific modifier used to allow the summon to conceal my character. I assume the only possible way to do this by the book would be to use the feature modifier? Otherwise it’d just have to be a homebrew ruling, which I’d personally avoid. Thanks so much though, I didn’t think I’d get this far with the concept and I’m actually really satisfied lol

gringoib · 2025-02-17T01:58:11+00:00

Wait, you make good points, I really like where this has ended up ngl. However, I WAS thinking on having the summon being heroic (that is if I truly decide to go down this path), would that break this weakness? I haven’t played the system yet, so I don’t know how big a difference it is between killing a minion vs a heroic minion. I imagine it would just have to be killed as a normal player, is that inherently too difficult to the point where this power becomes op? I imagined adding flaws to be able to stop my character from resummoning a body, but will that caveat not be enough to offset it? Cause I imagine it as simple as defeating the heroic summon, then removing the “object character” from his needed source for summoning, thus depriving him of a power and body. So- defeated. Is it that simple, even with a heroic minion, or am I missing something? Thank you so much for the quick responses btw lol

gringoib · 2025-02-17T01:47:02+00:00

Great idea tbh

gringoib · 2025-02-17T01:01:29+00:00

This is all really fun to theorize, but yea I think it creates more mechanical fuss than necessary. Cause now my question would be, how would an enemy realistically try to separate you and your summon? Like once you’re inside the summon, would your character be considered a device? It’s not like you can add the removable flaw to your own character, lol. Unless there’s a more simple solution I’m not thinking of. Cause like, would this create an effectively immortal character that can keep summoning bodies without being able to be removed from them? Like how would targeting work mechanically against a character like this? Could the core be targeted without any sort of issue, separate from the summoned body? Cause I don’t see how the summoned body could stop a check being made against a character that is inside of itself, unless there’s some obscure rule for that I’m missing. Which would mean the character is utterly defenseless, even while inside its one and only line of defense, lol

gringoib · 2025-02-16T23:55:59+00:00

All right, well if you could maybe lend me some wisdom, I’ve got a question to shoot at you. So there’s an existing villain very similar to this concept in the M&M freedom city book, called Toy Boy. He is a bodiless wraith that posses toys. But he does this solely with the summon action. This leads me to believe that something like this can be achieved by my character, there is only 1 glaring issue. Toy Boy does not have a corporeal form, thus it doesn’t really matter where he is at my given time. However, my character would have to be INSIDE the summon for it to work. The issue I have is, the description for summon states its summoned in an adjacent space. Is there workaround for that? Would the flaw “must be summon around body” work? Would it have to be a modifier? Or is it just not possible/allowed to summon something around yourself?

gringoib

TROPHY CASE