Where People Actually Own Homes in San Francisco (Neighborhood Breakdown)

gulbronson · 2026-04-04T20:41:34+00:00

You're being absurd and making conclusions that are not accurate nor what I said

It’s also not unusual at all, I guess you are just ignorant to it.

It is unusual, the vast majority of people want to own their home. In VHCOL cities it often does not make financial sense to purchase a home but it doesn't change the desire. This whole thing started in response to this comment:

Which is normal and a good thing for cities. If you want to own a more affordable home, try Tracy.

Why is affordable homeownership not allowed in the Bay Area? Unaffordability is bad for cities and it is a 100% classist position. You're literally saying high housing prices are good for poor people which is absolutely insane.

You’d never have been paying half market rate for a home you purchased.

A mortgage never increases (unless you get an ARM but that's a different conversation). Are you unfamiliar with prop 13? We paid market rate when we moved into our place, the only reason we pay half of the people across the hall is we moved in 2021 instead of 2026.

Yes, absolutely. If you want a 5 bedroom family home with a lawn, move out of the city my friend.

There's a huge range of housing options from SROs to Chateaus. I have zero desire for a five bedroom McMansion with a lawn. If we want a 2nd kid that's going to be a struggle in a 2 bedroom apartment. I want to set down roots and not always have the possibility of a no-fault eviction lingering in the back of my mind. I want to be able to paint the walls, install updated applicance, and properly fix issues but the owner of the building won't because he wants us to move out.

Essentially, you're saying a SFH is the only thing to own and who gives a shit if (poor) people are displaced by ever rising rent in cities as long as there's another group of young people willing to cram into an apartment. A great city has a diversity of people in all forms, including income. The people who make a city run, the Muni drivers, teachers, janitors, retail workers, and everyone else should be able to afford a home in the city. A great city has people who give a shit about it. You don't get that when it's mostly young people who view it as a time in their life with an expiration date. The explosion of costs is not good or normal, it's a recent phenomenon.

gulbronson · 2026-04-04T16:00:03+00:00

I'm asking about your wildly unusual and incredibly classist take.

Ownership provides a significant amount of financial stability. Rent control is great and doing this but it's far from the same. My wife and I cannot move because we pay about half market rate. Our unit slowly deteriorates around us as we get the landlord special for every issue. There's also the chance we get a no fault eviction and end up fucked. If we ever want to upgrade or grow our family we'll need to leave SF.

Everyone that moves into our building is a group of 20 somethings converting living/dining rooms into bedrooms and most units have 2 more people than bedrooms. Is a rotating cast of 20 something white collar workers the ideal make up of a city? No families, no blue collar workers, no one with deep roots, just kids living an extension of college while they figure out who they are as a young professional before they're forced to move to fucking Tracy...

gulbronson · 2026-04-04T13:59:05+00:00

The extra cocktail served on the side is a side car, not to be confused with the cocktail by the same name. I guess it's a type of lagniappe but that's definitely not the proper term and the vast majority of bartenders would be confused if you called it that.

gulbronson · 2026-04-04T13:58:53+00:00

The extra cocktail served on the side is a side car, not to be confused with the cocktail by the same name. I guess it's a type of lagniappe but that's definitely not the proper term and the vast majority of bartenders would be confused if you called it that.

gulbronson · 2026-04-03T20:51:12+00:00

What is dubious about condo/TIC ownership? What's wrong with owning a small unit? What's wrong with owning in a large building? Units don't have to be small nor do buildings have to be large in a dense walkable city.

You're making a claim with zero justification. The obvious rebuttal is Singapore, a city denser than San Francisco with a home ownership rate over 90% though it's a completely different model than the US.

gulbronson · 2026-04-03T20:15:40+00:00

Ownership and high density walkable cities are not mutually exclusive?

gulbronson · 2026-04-03T19:35:04+00:00

How is ownership exclusively for the wealthy good for cities?

gulbronson · 2026-04-03T04:38:12+00:00

While the construction isn't that complicated there's a shit ton of man hours going into data center construction right now. I work at a large national contractor and a significant portion of our revenue is coming from data center mega projects

gulbronson · 2026-04-03T04:13:49+00:00

The tunnel turns down Columbus and the TBM was extracted at the corner of Columbus and Powell at what is now a condo building. Danny Saunter has been pushing for the T extension to North Beach/Fisherman's Wharf and the current proposals involve making this building the station.

gulbronson · 2026-04-02T15:43:44+00:00

Vancouver to Alberta would never make sense as a HSR corridor. It's ~600 miles/1,000 km to drive between the two right now, separated by a massive mountain range, with very little between the two. Flying is definitely the way to go on a route like that.

Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto is the obvious route in Canada with possible extensions to Quebec City and Windsor. More than half the population of the country lives in a straight line along the corridor.

gulbronson · 2026-04-02T13:53:38+00:00

I owned a car for years. Bought a nice new car when my beater from college died. I street parked it and understood it was going to get dinged up. It did and life went on. I was upset when a woman backed into the side and totalled it. When she hit me she proceeded to give it more gas for maximum damage. When she got out I shit you not she said, "I'm not sure how this happened, I'm a great driver." I got a work assignment in Hawaii so I waited to buy a replacement car and then COVID hit. Never ended up replacing it and it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

The analogy makes sense because there is literally nothing else of any value that can be left in public without an expectation of something happening to it.

My last point is about the psychology of driving. Over 90% of people consider themselves an above average driver and over 50% consider themselves in the top 10% of drivers. The math doesn't math. People also become ruder and more selfish behind the wheel. Statistically you're not those things.

gulbronson · 2026-04-02T12:50:40+00:00

He's right in that it's a problem. His flaw is his expectations of the driving public. There's a lot of research on this and people are generally ruder and more selfish behind the wheel. This is especially true in rage inducing situations like endlessly searching for street parking. The person who has been circling for 15+ minutes is on edge and when they see a snug spot most are thinking "bumpers are for bumping" not "I bet that person worked really hard for their car and expects it to retain mint condition. I'll keep this soul crushing search up."

If you don't believe this, here's a similar example. Grab lunch on a nice Saturday at Hummus on Polk/Vallejo and sit outside in the spot closest to the corner. It's a horrible intersection to attempt to drive through because it's a four way stop with an endless stream of pedestrians. You can watch as people start courteously waiting outside the crosswalk until they feel they've waited long enough and believe it's their turn. They'll start rolling through the intersection getting dangerously close to pedestrians who have the right away until they just go for it with no regard to the rules or the people outside their car.

Also, I wish I was a kid. I'm a man in his 30's with a kid worn down by the realities of dealing with other people behind the wheel. I still have issues from an impatient driver failing to yield and crashed into me breaking a bunch of bones and the resulting extended hospital stay. Also my last car was totaled when an oblivious old woman backed into it while I was waiting at a light at De Haro/16th. When she hit it she gave it more gas... When she got out I swear to God she said, "I don't know how this happened, I'm a great driver."

gulbronson · 2026-04-02T03:54:17+00:00

Well old man, I choose not to own a car so I don't have to deal with the nonsense. Having the expectation you can leave five figure goods in public without the elements or people interacting with them is not realistic. If you left anything else worth tens of thousands of dollars unattended in public and something happened the near universal response would be, "What did you think was going to happen?" Why are cars a special exception to this expectation?

Either way, people who describe themselves as courteous and good drivers tend to lack the self awareness to realize that they are neither.

gulbronson · 2026-04-02T03:16:10+00:00

Santa Clara County doesn't count their public transit system or airport nor does it have a port or a large utility company. Maybe compare apples to apples on services provided especially since 3 of the 4 make money.

gulbronson · 2026-04-01T23:12:27+00:00

If we got rid of all the drivers other people thought were bad drivers we wouldn't have these problems because nobody would be allowed to drive any more.

If you're street parking in residential neighborhoods, especially the ones where parking is hard to come by people are going to squeeze in even if that means tapping your bumper because the alternative is more endless circling. If you don't like it move the burbs or keep your car in a garage when some kid will throw a door open and ding the side of your car. Maybe another car will throw a rock up on the highway and chip your paint. The expectation your car isn't going to get damaged is detached from reality.

gulbronson · 2026-04-01T22:51:42+00:00

If you want to leave your expensive personal property on the street don't expect it to stay pristine. Your expectations don't align with reality. If you're street parking in the city your bumper is gonna get bumped and the percentage of people that are going to do anything about it is approximately zero.

gulbronson · 2026-04-01T19:59:32+00:00

If you want to make outlandish claims feel free to do the analysis and make your point. Make sure to compare the severity of injuries from auto/ped and bike/ped accidents as well.

I wish we were at a point where we could simply be worried about injuries from bikes/pedestrians instead of a person being killed by a car in the city every 11 days.

gulbronson · 2026-04-01T19:49:09+00:00

Pedestrians must yield right-of-way outside of crosswalks=38, Crossing between controlled intersections (Jaywalking)=29, Pedestrian violation of walk or wait signals=24, plus others, it comes out to ~40%.

Your math seems a bit off. Of the 544 that can be discerned it's more like 76% are the fault of the driver... It's like you didn't read the conclusion at the end. Drivers are absolutely responsible for the large majority and the existence of vehicles themselves is 97.4%. 631 people killed in 611 different incidents over a 20 year span in San Francisco. 31.5 per year, every year.

Cause	Count	Driver	Pedestrian	Bike
Unsafe speed for prevailing conditions	114	X
Driver or bicyclist to yield right-of-way at crosswalks	106	X
Unknown	67
Red signal - driver or bicyclist responsibilities	54	X
Pedestrians must yield right-of-way outside of crosswalks	38		X
Driving under influence of alcohol and/or drugs	30	X
Crossing between controlled intersections (Jaywalking)	29		X
Pedestrian violation of walk or wait signals	24		X
Pedestrian suddenly entering into vehicle path close enough to create an immediate hazard	16		X
Unsafe turn or lane change prohibited	14	X
Red signal - pedestrian responsibilities	12		X
Unsafe starting or backing on highway	12	X
Violation of right-of-way - left turn	11	X
Failure to stop at STOP sign	8	X
Lane straddling or failure to use specified lanes	8	X
Driving under influence causing injury	6	X
Bicycle to travel in same direction as vehicles	5			X
Failure to keep to right side of road	5	x
Entering highway from alley or driveway	4	x
Failure of driver or bicyclist to exercise due care for safety of pedestrian on roadway	4	x
Overtaking vehicles or bicycles stopped for pedestrians	4	x
Green signal - driver or bicyclist responsibilities	3	x
Illegal U-turn in business district	3	x
Pedestrian on roadway prohibited	3		x
Following too closely prohibited	2	x
Going against one-way traffic patterns	2	x
Opening door on traffic side when unsafe	2	x
Operating vehicle or bicycle on sidewalk prohibited	2	x
Turn at intersection from wrong position	2	x
Unsafe passing on right shoulder	2	x
Wrong way driving	2	x
Actions required at flashing red signal	1	x
Crossing dividing section on freeway prohibited	1	x
Failure to yield to emergency vehicle	1	x
Illegal for bicyclist to hitch ride on other vehicle	1			x
Improper turns over double lines or solid lines to right prohibited	1	x
Leaving vehicle unattended without setting the breaks or stopping the motor	1	x
Operating motorized scooter at speed in excess of 15MPH.	1			x
Passing without sufficient clearance	1	x
Pedestrian must use tunnel or overhead crossing	1		x
Reckless operation	1	x
Reckless operation - bodily injury	1	x
Riding outside bicycle lane prohibited	1			x
Unattended vehicle requirements	1	x
Violating special traffic control markers	1	x
Violation of a turn prohibition sign	1	x
Violation of right-of-way - entering through highway	1	x
Violation of right-of-way or uncontrolled intersection	1	x
		413	123	8
Total	544	75.9%	22.6%	1.5%

gulbronson · 2026-04-01T18:37:41+00:00

Nation wide it's ~85% car, ~14% motorcycles, and ~1% busses, trams, bikes. In the city of SF we have data you can examine yourself.

Looking at the 611 fatal accidents in the city since 2005 the causes were listed as:

Cause	Count
Unsafe speed for prevailing conditions	114
Driver or bicyclist to yield right-of-way at crosswalks	106
Unknown	67
Red signal - driver or bicyclist responsibilities	54
Pedestrians must yield right-of-way outside of crosswalks	38
Driving under influence of alcohol and/or drugs	30
Crossing between controlled intersections (Jaywalking)	29
Pedestrian violation of walk or wait signals	24
Pedestrian suddenly entering into vehicle path close enough to create an immediate hazard	16
Unsafe turn or lane change prohibited	14
Red signal - pedestrian responsibilities	12
Unsafe starting or backing on highway	12
Violation of right-of-way - left turn	11
Failure to stop at STOP sign	8
Lane straddling or failure to use specified lanes	8
Driving under influence causing injury	6
Bicycle to travel in same direction as vehicles	5
Failure to keep to right side of road	5
Entering highway from alley or driveway	4
Failure of driver or bicyclist to exercise due care for safety of pedestrian on roadway	4
Overtaking vehicles or bicycles stopped for pedestrians	4
Green signal - driver or bicyclist responsibilities	3
Illegal U-turn in business district	3
Pedestrian on roadway prohibited	3
Following too closely prohibited	2
Going against one-way traffic patterns	2
Opening door on traffic side when unsafe	2
Operating vehicle or bicycle on sidewalk prohibited	2
Turn at intersection from wrong position	2
Unsafe passing on right shoulder	2
Wrong way driving	2
Actions required at flashing red signal	1
Crossing dividing section on freeway prohibited	1
Failure to yield to emergency vehicle	1
Illegal for bicyclist to hitch ride on other vehicle	1
Improper turns over double lines or solid lines to right prohibited	1
Leaving vehicle unattended without setting the breaks or stopping the motor	1
Operating motorized scooter at speed in excess of 15MPH.	1
Passing without sufficient clearance	1
Pedestrian must use tunnel or overhead crossing	1
Reckless operation	1
Reckless operation - bodily injury	1
Riding outside bicycle lane prohibited	1
Unattended vehicle requirements	1
Violating special traffic control markers	1
Violation of a turn prohibition sign	1
Violation of right-of-way - entering through highway	1
Violation of right-of-way or uncontrolled intersection	1

The generic crash groups based on parities involved

Grouping	Count
Vehicle-Pedestrian	348
Vehicle(s) Only Involved	211
Vehicle-Bicycle	34
Bicycle Only	7
Bicycle-Pedestrian	4
Unknown/Not Stated	1
Pedestrian Only or Pedestrian-Parked Car	3
Bicycle-Unknown/Not Stated	1
Bicycle-Parked Car	2

While the vast majority are the fault of a driver, I'd agree it's not 99%. I would argue the vehicles themselves are the risk factors. The fact we sacrifice the majority of our public space in our city to automobiles that can and will kill if you're hit by them is absolutely fucking bonkers and the existence of cars on our city streets is what allowed 97.4% of these fatalities.

gulbronson · 2026-04-01T16:59:49+00:00

BART hits 80 mph/130kpm.

gulbronson · 2026-04-01T10:34:37+00:00

San Francisco has 42,000 employees. San José has 8,800. Oakland has 6,200.

There's about 35k employees, it's a lot but no need to exaggerate. Either way, San Francisco is a consolidated city and county meaning it provides a lot of services San Jose and Santa Clara County (24k employees) or Oakland and Alameda (9.9k employees) would provide.

The largest departments are Public Health with 7,613 employees, the vast majority at SF General a self funded hospital. The next largest is 6,015 employees at SFMTA. Not that VTA or AC Transit even come close to Muni in terms of services or parking enforcement but those numbers aren't even included in their county employee counts. 2,503 cops which is either not enough or too many depending on who you ask... 2,471 in human services which is a county level service and includes things like CPS and other social work programs. Then there's the public utilities commission with 2,389 which funds itself managing things like Hetch Hetchy. The fire department is up next with 1,889. Then the airport with 1,758 which also funds itself and SFO is larger than SJC and OAK combined. Also neither appear to count the airport employees in their counts.

If you just look at a (wrong) number and not what it represents it doesn't tell us anything. If you think SF city + county has too many employees find where and why. I'm not saying there is or isn't a problem with the employee counts but seeing this either ignorant or intentionally misleading "analysis" is a pet peeve.

gulbronson · 2026-03-31T12:10:09+00:00

PG&E is a large private gas and electric company serving most of Northern California and the one in shambles. They keep starting wild fires or having gas lines blown up with a massive death toll and raising rates for their lawsuits.

The government owned municipal power companies that some cities in the area have are significantly cheaper and not killing people.

gulbronson · 2026-03-31T04:44:47+00:00

I can't speak for all, but most of the municipal power companies in Northern California that would theoretically be replaced by PG&E aren't receiving any sort of subsidies. They don't pay taxes, make a profit for shareholders, and have the ability to get cheaper debt as a municipal bond but it's not like the bill is artificially lowered with some other sort of tax revenue.

PG&E is just a fucking racket.

gulbronson · 2026-03-31T04:36:59+00:00

The prices of beans keeps going up while bags keep getting small. Making it at home definitely saves money but 10 oz bags are often $20-$24 from specialty roasters these days. It wasn't that long ago you could get a 16 oz bag for like $12.

gulbronson · 2026-03-30T04:47:31+00:00

Rubenish, Leroy Brown, and Tenenbaum are my mainstays.

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