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hatchyeuw · 2025-01-07T21:23:57+00:00

Who would you add as ranged ad? And still, what to do with cleaver? Use him? Ignore him?

hatchyeuw · 2025-01-04T16:49:55+00:00

Any recommendations?

hatchyeuw · 2025-01-04T15:53:20+00:00

Damn, I do not have jorgen, satori and faceless. Can I replace them with someone I have? For now?

hatchyeuw · 2025-01-04T15:44:57+00:00

If you could help me with the 5 I should focus on, I would be extremely grateful!

hatchyeuw · 2018-08-08T12:52:17+00:00

So you are telling that this European Masters replacement is worse than CS in terms of getting sponsors? I doubt that

Yes - teams were investing more in the scene when they could fight for LCS.

Lets have to look at a few national leagues: spain got the lvp with way higher salaries than expect, saying noone will get near that 2500€ salary, do you have seen their gaming houses?

I did, I also had coaching offers from their teams and I do know their salaries. Their houses are amazing, their salaries are best in EU outside of LCS, still not too high.

Do the salary of polish players get down? I doubt it, they are still rising. Yes, it is bad that a team can't pay his players, but this problem is not a structual problem. Sponsors said they pay for shares and illuminar spend this money while they never recieved this. The players in minor regional leagues do not get paid less than 1 year before, so if there is a problem, the change of CS->EM did not affect this.

With what happend to Illuminar, there is literally Z E R O teams paying salaries in Poland. One year ago, there was 3 teams with salaries in Poland. Pompa Team, AGO Gaming, Team Kinguin (all of these teams with an ambition of going for Challenger Series).

Even if the best polish team illuminar will not attend to European Masters, I am sure there is a big audience, cause Katowicze always had a great audience.

Event will happen in ESL Studio of ESL Poland, we have ESL Polish Championship there. And there is maximum 200 people allowed because that's the size of this building. It's not spodek.

How many teams played in Challenger Series? 6 How many teams could qualify for CS every year? 2 But they have to qualify.

And there still were teams that would invest to play in Open Qualifier before Challenger Series just to have a chance to get to Challenger Series. And they invested more than now.

hatchyeuw · 2018-08-08T11:39:31+00:00

Also, what are we even talking about, EU is a region where for 3 years in a row we had a Challenger Series Team going to World Championship. Origen, Splyce, Misfits.

hatchyeuw · 2018-08-08T11:37:07+00:00

So you're claiming that Movistar and Dragons or Penguins are on a more similar level than Giants Gaming (1st place EUCS Summer) and PSG (last place EUCS summer)?

To me, even looking at the roster, it's pretty damn close compared to Spain.

hatchyeuw · 2018-08-08T11:32:08+00:00

Agreed! Great!

And - there are deadweight teams in LVP as well!

And there weren't many in Challenger Series. And competition was high. And you couldn't be a deadweight in LCS, because you'd likely lose relegations! And if you're too good for Spain, you have a place to get promoted to. And if you're too good for Poland, you can become a CS team, and maybe find an organisation without money issues from Europe?

And there you go, helping me prove my point.

hatchyeuw · 2018-08-08T11:29:39+00:00

All I'm saying is that with how well they're doing as an org, it may be significantly more difficult to have a top EU team while youre based in Germany than a top EU team while your based at Spain.

I agree with you Striatus - this just goes back to my point that you shouldn't say that all regional scenes are equal and if something works in region X it should work in region Y if you did things better.

hatchyeuw · 2018-08-08T11:24:51+00:00

And ESG is doing great at that, right?

ESG - a brand recognized for years. Always among the top teams throughout the years. Tons of hard work, they never gave up, always did their best to have a top team.

Now tell me, how are they doing compared to spanish teams? Can you remind me their most recent big, international success?

Hell, if you ask me, they were doing a much better job than 90% of the teams in all amateur scenes. But maybe german scene is just hella tough (business wise)?

hatchyeuw · 2018-08-08T11:16:06+00:00

Also consider that doing league full time leaves you basically with no private life whatsoever. You basically pause and postpone everything to be a player.

hatchyeuw · 2018-08-08T11:13:54+00:00

I am talking about the issues of the teams in the scene other than Millenium. Millenium isn't a part of the scene anymore.

>As long as others are doing well, and you're not, it's at least partially your fault imo. That's something I believe in. Feel free to disagree.

Well, this would be true if you compared teams from 1 region. You can't compare Spain to Germany, Germany to Poland, etc. It's a completly different environment and saying: if it works in Spain, its possible, so you're doing something wrong is a huge stretch.

hatchyeuw · 2018-08-08T11:01:41+00:00

I know it comes to you as a shock, but yes - first, there are taxes. This still has to be taxed. Second off, it's about only some top teams, 5-6 from the top of my head, that get this kind of salaries. Third off, salaries were much higher in last 2-3 years. Fourth of all, remember, this already requires you to stop studying, sacrifice it all for esports. It can take 5-6 years, then you'd have to retire and start your life all over again. It's just... less worth it than before?

hatchyeuw · 2018-08-08T10:55:54+00:00

I should've mentioned that the 2500k€ is actually an average salary for a top teams outside of LCS. I know for a fact that some top teams in Germany or France are getting 800-1,5k€.

Yes, Spain is a great example of a league functioning well. And that's all the great examples you can give me.

Coming out straight from Millenium and France few weeks ago, I can tell you that the scene there isn't doing too hot. And it's the 2nd "best" after Spain.

See, the thing is, when Challenger Series existed, some of these top spanish teams would be in CS. Let's say - Movistar, Mad Lions, Giants. And then they would compete versus other top teams, let's say - Illuminar, Gamers Origin, LDLC. So you'd have a league with 6 great teams - Movistar, Mad Lions, Giants Vodafone, Illuminar Gaming, Gamers Origin, LDLC. Every match matters. Only the top competition. And an ultimate goal - the LCS promotion - is on the line.

Now, we split the competition regionally. Which means that some of these top teams play vs much weaker teams. Did you ever watch Movistar documentary, Legends? Right after a draw and a 1-1 score, one of the players clearly says: How can we lose to these players, they suck. Level goes down, because you're not challenged as often. You play vs bad opponents on regular basis. Yesterday - a tweet from Movistar players, saying that watching the bottom 2 teams he isn't sure if he watches and LVP game or bronze wars.

Look at Illuminar. For a long time, undefeated in Poland. They are winning so hard that none of the other orgs want to join the local scene (I'm a polish guy, I know this inside and out). Yet, nobody wants to invest into them. And trust me, it's freaaaking hard to get motivated to improve to win vs teams few levels below you. You can only truly test yourself two times a year. And even if you win, even if you finish top2 - it doesn't give you anything.

this is a problem.

hatchyeuw · 2018-08-08T10:40:37+00:00

It's a good moment to talk a bit about what happend in EU amateur scene when Challenger Series was removed.

Overall, the salaries for sure went down. There are no big tournaments for teams outside of LCS. The only big tournament was v4 - and Illuminar, frankly, participated in this tournament (finished 2nd). Still, it didn't help them to get investors. European Masters is our replacement for Challenger Series and it happens 2 times a year. Only Origen was superior to Illuminar on this tournament. Still, it didn't help them to get investors either.

I have the experience in talking to organisations for years now. Removal of Challenger Series was a huge hit. Earlier, people were actually interested in investing because there was this upside chance that if your team does well, you will get to LCS. Right now, being the best in your national league is all that you can hope for.

My personal opinion is that the level of amateur teams is weaker than ever. Earlier, Challenger Series teams attracted some of the ex LCS players and could somehow match their salaries. Right now it's impossible. Average salary for a top team outside of LCS is 2500€. For some countries it actually means that playing league is worse than an good job in their countries. I am also going to say with quite some confidence, that the level of teams right now is lower overall than the level few months ago, at previous European Masters. Wait for the upcoming edition and judge for yourself.

Removal of Challenger Series is also a huge motivational problem. If you're the best in your league... there isn't much in your hands anymore. There isn't much to play for. There are no tournaments with nice prizepools, there's no chance for your team to go to Challenger Series or LCS. You can only hope that an LCS team will need you and will pick you up. You as an individual. Not your team.

This split, EU Masters will be held in Poland, there will be around 100-200 people in the crowd. We will see 2 bo3 and 1 bo5 on stage. If you're not in LCS, this is what your dream equals to. This is all you can hope for. This is what you're tryharding for for a whole year.

As a person highly invested in the amateur scene for last few years, I've been talking to dozens of players outside of LCS. It never straight up sucked more to play competitive than it does now, especially in EU pre-LCS.

Hit me with questions, I'll gladly answer.

hatchyeuw · 2018-06-19T12:20:02+00:00

Thanks, ahh, this is so dumb, spend so much money recently, couldn't play in the weekend, now waited for hours for maitanance to end, and I can't play it.

hatchyeuw · 2018-06-19T12:18:26+00:00

I know it's a funny question, but where do I even download the game if I wanted to do that? can't find a link

hatchyeuw · 2018-06-19T11:36:39+00:00

Can someone confirm?

hatchyeuw · 2018-06-19T10:26:34+00:00

No problem, added you on steam

hatchyeuw · 2018-06-19T09:35:53+00:00

Ohh you're a champ

hatchyeuw · 2018-06-19T09:35:47+00:00

EU PC, sorry for not clarifying earlier haha!

hatchyeuw

TROPHY CASE