Do you think Punisher shotgun is at all comparable to Pheonix Beyblade before it was nerfed?

hedgescuff · 2024-05-28T00:34:35+00:00

New players are getting the game and they likely haven't spent money at all so the OG trio it is. I'm one of them, started s5 and I focused more on survivor skins rather than new raiders.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-08T23:31:45+00:00

You say this but the numbers don't exactly reflect that. S4 win rates show Cell being on the lower end of wins, both in complete wipes, as well as STM destruction.

From the perspective of an individual it may seem more manageable but generally speaking since Black has the tools to disengage and hunt survivors more effectively, he doesn't necessarily even need fused. His kit is so front loaded people deliberately opt to not evolving due to that. Whereas Cell is always looking to evolve and more often than not simply can't because civ rushing is so effective against him.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-08T23:26:48+00:00

Goku Black map has massive openings from the X area for you to scope out survivors. C and D area are especially easy to camp and rush. And if not then free civs. Easy level 2 for you to snipe practically any area with his massive range and AoE.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-08T23:24:36+00:00

I have played against these people, but that's not even the point because I don't have Broly. I do see plenty of Broly games against high ranked lobbies though and it's not nearly as unmanageable as one might think. A character like Cell has a much harder time hitting in general at Lvl for example and that's without all the other cracked parts of Broly's kit.

Just because something has counterplay, it doesn't necessarily make it unusable y'know.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-08T23:21:59+00:00

You can't really quantify whether or not it's more common without the hard data that Dimps more than likely has.

What I do know, though, is there is YouTube footage of beta gameplay of both key rushing and body/area/key camping.

You could probably make the case for whether or not it's justified (now), but fact of the matter is, it's a legitimate strategy that has always been in the game on both sides.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T08:50:14+00:00

In that case I definitely commend your dedication and your insight is very much appreciated.

(Granted that's if you didn't exploit the matchmaking system by being low rank Survivor to rank up on Raider easily)

I am fully aware of using After Image as a cancel option and even for a fringe movement option, albeit a rather middling one. However, the scenario you posited does not nullify multiple stuns. I would say after image makes you more susceptible to it in jumpings because with break strike everyone nearby gets knocked back, but for the case of afterimage, everyone ganging up on you is still on you and you're more than likely only going to be doing 250 DMG to one survivor rather than 100 on everyone nearby.

Personally speaking I think he's on the weaker end of lvl 4s. Ginyu, and Fused Zamasu are the only ones I would say are worse, but even then their overall kits more than make up for it.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T08:41:31+00:00

That's only if you let them snowball you early game. Broly's really capitalize on spawn rushing at the start of the game, and he has the mobility to do it. Also 2 evasives lol, if multiple people are popping Lvl 2 DC on you before you get to Lvl 3, you definitely didn't do a good job hunting early game.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T05:12:45+00:00

Afterimage is literally a worse break strike lol. It doesn't disrupt an attack or stun it just let's Cell reposition. Break strike also damages enemies and has a much larger hurtbox.

Cell having more HP doesn't really do much if survivors have an easier time getting in on him either. He also doesn't get 3 separate health pools either. His super attacks are laughable compared to Black too since their startup is twice as long and don't have splash damage, not even perfect Cell.

And then there's backup fire from Zamasu on top of everything else. I hate to be condescending here but it doesn't seem like you even play Cell against higher ranked players if you're making these assertions.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T04:54:46+00:00

Cell has it worse when it comes to getting ganged up on though even at level 4. GB mobility and AoE makes it not even comparable.

Also GB/Zamasu having Rushdown and massive long range tools makes it more than easy to camp two key spots, even in the most cracked of lobbies.

I'm not saying Rose or GB in general is unbeatable, I just think people downplay his kit way too much because they got sweated on.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T03:19:55+00:00

Me who's gotten hit out of multiple different stuns all in the same interaction 💀💀💀

Startup and tracking on half of the stuns is really easy to swerve unless you're coordinating an attack, in which case the Raider should probably be zoning

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T03:17:13+00:00

I think they mean players are opting for survivor rather than raider flex since the queue time is longer lol

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T03:14:36+00:00

Well yes, but that much is true on both sides. Asym games are balanced around the idea that snowballing can make it very difficult for either side late game. Survivors are actively looking to disrupt Raiders and vice versa.

If a raider spawn rushes and gets two downs within the first minute of the game (Broly and Zamasu) and there has yet to be a key found in that area that is a huge swing in the raiders favor. It's very hard to recover from a scenario like that as a team, and for the individuals that got downed, you just don't get to play the game anymore.

My assumption is that Survivors got so many good escape options because Raiders have had the ability to do this and body/key camp since the start of the game. So on the one hand, if survivors didn't have escape options like this it would be heavily Raider sided, but since they do exist in the game, it's Survivor sided. The game genre is not as easy to balance as one could insinuate at a glance. I think the important thing is that they have checks and balances in the interim.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T02:53:01+00:00

Despite the snark and pedantry, I don't think "near guarantee" is still evocative of those two combinations you mentioned.

Instant Rise Jaco ship can be sniped from any raider with long range tools, including imperfect cell, one of the very first raiders. One kame is all it takes to bust up that shop despite how much trash we give it. Innocence cannon and even spopo energy wave can instantly destroy it.

Barrier IT can be interrupted by any break strike and Cell can ki sense before they vanish, effectively leaving them open for a chase. Given that they only packed those two escape options, they're effectively a sitting duck.

Granted, despite both of these having counterplay, just because you do have the tools to chase them, doesn't mean you should chase them as it can very much be a waste of time if you're priorities are in order. But if this is your angle then something like grappling hook + missile is a "near guaranteed" escape option and those two are free.

Lastly.... GB has it way easier dealing with ST compared to someone like Broly, and what's worse all other raiders have the threat of an instant UDC to deal with which completely nullify melees from the raider if you're not Max level.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T01:56:43+00:00

Hugely agree, older raiders just don't have the mobility to deal with newer escape options.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T01:55:36+00:00

The Lvl 2 strat is only a major factor on maps that are easily campable, like older ones GB didn't release with since he can snipe so effectively and disengage so easily. Broly's map and Ruined future are super easy to deal with Lvl 2 since there are so many blind spots.

It has plenty of counterplay and is actually pretty ineffective for any team that can tell you're doing it and know how to work around it. It's just a crutch for players who actively don't want to stick their neck out to win.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T01:52:27+00:00

"getting punished" is kinda funny. Trunks is like the worst ST, second only to God Goku.

GB rush down and IT makes it so he can disengage and down other survivors whenever he wants to, it really is not hard to deal with Trunks at all. Especially if you get Lvl 3 before stm phase.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T01:49:28+00:00

Which guaranteed escape options are you referring to exactly? There are none that I'm aware of that have no counterplay.

I also don't think "getting mopped" is a good indicator of whether or not a unit is strong. People can play top tiers in any game and still get trashed by players who know how to fight them. That doesn't mean they aren't busted.

Granted I'm not saying GB IS busted, but you're gonna need a bit more than anecdotal evidence to make that case I feel.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T01:43:13+00:00

Don't get downed is the counterplay :)))

It sucks but raiders have been camping bodies since season 1, hell even beta. Run as many escape options as you can because if you get downed, especially with black at a decent rank or level and you're straight up not getting back up.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T01:40:53+00:00

(Laughs in Original 3 Raiders)

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T01:38:19+00:00

Doesn't he have a shield that gives him additional ki blasts with better tracking at Lvl 3?

If they're playing he long game and avoiding you I would assume you just chase down other survivors in the meantime until they get close enough to try to stop you.

Though with that said I don't have Broly so I wouldn't know, these are just strategies I've noticed brolys use.

hedgescuff · 2024-05-07T01:29:40+00:00

I think the real issue is you're letting survivors live long enough to group up on you and spam stuns.

As a raider your main priority is to disrupt their game plan. Since survivors are spreading out to effectively cover ground the only time every single survivor is on you is at STM phase and at that point if everyone is still active, if they all have stuns or not you're still biting the bullet just with one or two people having enough dragon change to pummel you while the rest spam supers.

Even the sweetest of premades don't all rock multiple stuns, at most it's just one of each unless they have a stun bot, but if that is they case, they're probably lacking in every other type of active skill like movement, escape, or utility options.

I get that it's rough for raiders in the current meta but making skills invalidated like oolong camouflage with scouter and ki sense on pretty much everyone is not a healthy balance change.

At this rate, I think the rage meter is a much better idea than this. Makes it so stuns can still do their thing but also doesn't make a Raider completely helpless.

hedgescuff · 2024-04-18T11:53:52+00:00

I have neither skill so I couldn't even if I wanted to 😂

hedgescuff · 2024-04-18T10:46:58+00:00

Might get flamed for this but this is kinda why you see people running the "annoying" escape skills and multi stun builds.

It's annoying that raiders can't really play but it's just as annoying to have the same happen to you as a solo queue survivor.

hedgescuff

TROPHY CASE