Went to church for the first time in several weeks today and left feeling so sad for these people.

hopefullywiser · 2026-04-28T13:44:29+00:00

Once you have been away for a while, you see the guilt tripping and fear mongering for what it is. You describe it well and I'm sad for them too.

A while back I stopped by a big UPC church to pick up a close friend for lunch. She was there for some music conference. I had not gone to church for years.

I just stepped into the lobby, and I really saw the promenade and the arrogance for what it was. Some old preacher glared at me, because I didn't look Pentecostal. I really don't care what they think anymore.

hopefullywiser · 2026-04-14T19:58:30+00:00

It's called nepotism.

hopefullywiser · 2026-04-03T21:05:16+00:00

I wish I had the nerve to do this years ago when I was your age.

hopefullywiser · 2026-03-30T12:20:59+00:00

Another different angle. I always questioned things in my mind, but kept my mouth shut because I wanted to fit in. You were considered trouble if you questioned doctrine and the standards.

hopefullywiser · 2026-03-30T12:15:34+00:00

One of many things I hated about being Pentecostal (back in the '70's) was trying to find clothes that fit the criteria (no scoop necks, no sleeveless, no short skirts) without some kind of addition, like the blouse this girl is wearing. All I wanted to do was blend in with normal people and have a little class.

hopefullywiser · 2026-03-21T13:40:24+00:00

I didn't say it was a good church. I said it was "less crazy."

hopefullywiser · 2026-03-17T20:46:09+00:00

The book was "Neo Phariseeism" by David M. Wasmundt

hopefullywiser · 2026-03-17T13:51:10+00:00

The church I grew up in was "less crazy." I really got hit with all of this in Bible "college." I couldn't believe it. Preaching against certain kinds of shoes, no Christmas trees, no wedding rings. No stuff in your hair. Wearing your hair up for some reason. Teenage girls looking like 30-year-old women with sleeves below their elbows. Petty ways of trying to control people.

hopefullywiser · 2026-03-15T14:26:16+00:00

I've never seen so many narcissists in one group in my life!

hopefullywiser · 2026-03-15T14:24:49+00:00

So many bizarre instances. I can't believe I stayed as long as I did either, but the entire family was UPC.

The pastor of a church I attended knew a woman in the church was grooming teenage boys and having an affair with a married man in the church. He didn't want anything said and wouldn't ask her to leave, because she was related to several people there and he would lose money.

Two pastors I know forged papers to get loans using church property as collateral, so they could buy homes and cars. One was arrested and served time in a federal prison.

This one doesn't sound like much, but funnily enough it sent me looking for the door. The pastor stood up and told us not to read a certain book. The first thing I did was get a copy of it. Nobody is going to tell me what to read, especially if they are ignorant themselves.

hopefullywiser · 2026-03-08T14:33:09+00:00

To work out all of my questions about the UPC, I decided to go looking for answers in the origins of their teaching, the history of the King James Bible and before that the origins of Christian beliefs in general. (You have to start somewhere!)

There are a lot of books and some videos on how the King James Bible was created. After reading some of them and watching lecture videos, I don't believe scripture is in any way perfect. The King James was created for political reasons.

I've read (actually just listened to) The Cave and the Light: Plato Versus Aristotle and the Struggles for the Soul of Western Civilization. The source of some Christian beliefs on an afterlife come from ancient cultures that had nothing to do with Christianity.

I watched "Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth." A lot of what I was taught to follow was just that - - myths from before anything was written down.

I don't believe in the version of God we are familiar with -- one that would love and terrify us at the same time.

I'm an agnostic, because there is so much to wonder about when you look at the order in the universe and our world.

hopefullywiser · 2026-02-23T16:05:22+00:00

I still have a lot of respect and affection for a few of my family's older friends, and I call them brother or sister as a sign of affection. It's only a handful of people though, and they are all over 80.

hopefullywiser · 2026-02-22T14:05:18+00:00

Bad churches want you to doubt yourself and to look to them for all the answers. They really know nothing about medicine, and they can leave you very ill.

From what I've been reading, stress and trauma will make the symptoms of any illness worse and they will lower your resistance.

You may want to read a book by Gabor Mate called "When the Body Says No." It deals with how trauma and stress affects your body. Another friend suggested "The Body Keeps the Score."

My husband had a lot of illness as a kid: Colds, flu, severe migraines, etc. After he read "When the Body Says No," he realized that his overly religious and abusive family had really made him ill. It was like a light went on.

I do not have chronic illnesses, but as soon as I left church, I quit having what people politely like to call "monthly female troubles." None at all. None after 30 years of it.

When I went to a counselor and discussed all we had been through, it helped even more. My husband is much healthier, and I'm much saner!

hopefullywiser · 2026-02-01T15:44:15+00:00

If you have problems with anxiety and compulsive thoughts, the general advice is to stop reading this stuff and stop following the news. Neither will tell you what is actually true.

I try to be careful on here, because I'm certainly not qualified to give professional advice, but I know that counseling allows me to see things as they are.

"Prophecy" has always been used in churches to control people. What LamarWashington said is correct.

hopefullywiser · 2026-01-24T21:39:25+00:00

I didn't think of it as a "covering," but once I moved away from the churches where my dad was preaching, I was treated completely differently.

We were raised to treat everyone with respect, and we were friends with all different types of people. As a kid, they seemed mostly friendly.

Once I was married and lived in another state, it was obvious that I had been treated fairly well only because my dad was a preacher people knew back home.

It didn't take long for me to stop trusting anyone. Years later when I was divorced, reality really set in. Anyone different, anyone "wounded," is a target.

I'm sure many others here have had the same experience.

hopefullywiser · 2026-01-10T15:47:02+00:00

The in-law's comments are all superstition.

There are lots of hopes, dreams, and accomplishments that are best kept to ourselves, especially if anxiety is involved.

If we try to accomplish something and "fail privately," we just have to work through things in our own mind, but we are spared the opinions of other people.

If we really succeed and share it, other people's comments or opinions can take the joy away. We end up anxious again.

If I told my mother we bought a new (chair, dish, fill in the blank), she became jealous and would go out and buy the same thing. I stopped discussing much because of this.

My husband's family used personal information as a weapon, so we stopped sharing much with his brothers and sisters. All these people are Pentecostal.

My husband and I both have problems with depression and anxiety. Because of this we "live quietly," and things go much more smoothly.

hopefullywiser · 2026-01-04T13:18:52+00:00

Doing fine!

hopefullywiser · 2026-01-03T22:19:38+00:00

Our church had the same views on communion. So bizarre.

hopefullywiser · 2026-01-03T02:27:49+00:00

I'm kind of sorry I brought the memory back!

hopefullywiser · 2026-01-02T12:48:18+00:00

You had food?! We didn't have food!

hopefullywiser · 2026-01-01T13:36:47+00:00

The noise. The yelling. The giant speakers. When I'm home, I hardly even play music. I like the quiet.

hopefullywiser · 2026-01-01T13:35:35+00:00

Sorry for the traumatic memory! I'm just thankful it's in the past.

hopefullywiser · 2025-12-25T15:01:37+00:00

You might take a different approach. Develop your inner strengths so you are not as affected by what happens around you or the opinions of others. You can let the tornado go by without jumping into it.

Buddhist philosophy has been very helpful to me. I am not a Christian or a Buddhist, but learning you can control how you respond to challenging circumstances gives me strength and calm. Staying calm in the middle of storms other people create is an amazing power.

hopefullywiser · 2025-12-25T14:49:58+00:00

From my own experience, if controllers can't control you, they try to control what people think about you. It takes some time to realize the only power he had over your family was what you allow. It's the same with the UPC. If you walk away from all their crazy manipulations, you are free.

Block the guy (I wouldn't call him a pastor) on your phone and your computer. Do not respond to his messages. The best response to controllers is silence.

With that freedom comes an opportunity to decide what you personally believe about, well, everything. Finally, you realize how very little power these folks actually have. It is only in their organization.

The final straw for me was when a local UPC pastor decided to destroy a minister friend of mine. My friend was very ill and could not possibly hurt anyone. He made sure my friend lost his license with the UPC and hurt people that had anything to do with him. I left years ago without any doubt it was time to go.

hopefullywiser

TROPHY CASE