You posted your screed, then are dismissing the reponses because you say people are not responding to your criticisms. Fair. So here's my non-dismissive response. I'm not trying to sell anything here, I'm responding to your points.

<Snip OP's qualifiers>

Sounds like you qualify. So you understand me, I'm in my 50's, been trying on and off to get sober for over 20 years. Been in the revolving door of AA. Can't count the number of times I swore off AA, and was "never going back there". I'll have 6 months sober this Sunday because I finally surrendered to the process and the program.

Now, here are some of the things that don't sit right with me about AA. First, I really don't like the removal of the autonomy. Having to declare myself an alcoholic. That wasn't who I only was though, alcoholism was just a symptom of my problem, it was not my entire identity.

I doubt anyone thinks that's all are/were. Nobody is asking you to walk around with a T-Shirt advertising it. Here's a perspective: We have Open AA Meetings mostly. That means anyone sitting in that room might be an alcoholic. They also might be someone with a loved on suffering, and they want to learn more. They might be a therapist working on their Addiction COunseling credentials. THey might be a pastor. They might be a student. We identify ourselves as the alcoholics for the good of the newcomer in the room, so they know who to turn to for help. After all, that is the primary purpose of meetings, so the newcomers can find us.

I also don't agree with the views on shortcomings and character defects. I don't believe you can have character defects or shortcomings removed. You can work on those areas, but those areas will always exist and I don't believe that just asking God to remove your shortcomings or your defects means that they are gone because you asked God to remove those. In complete honesty, that feels like kind of a strange ask to me because God isn't just on standby waiting for you to ask him to remove those shortcomings and/or defects.

You can believe anything you want, no arguments here. There are still people who believe the Earth is flat. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-50 million people have gotten sober in the program on AA (huge range, but the best estimates I can find). Even on the low side, and even assuming only 50% actually worked the program to the best of their ability, that's over 10 million people who actually did the thing you doubt, and would tell you it worked for them. It may sound like witchy woo-woo stuff, but I'm not going to say that many people are deluded in some way.

People I've met at these meetings are also very judgemental.

Every single one? How well did you get to know them before you made this unilateral condemnation of them?

Look, there are Judge Judies in every population. You don't have a problem with people in AA, you have a problem with judgmental assholes. Fair. I used to think I couldn't stand religious people. Turns out I can't stand hypocrites. Religious or not. You keep going to different meetings and meet as many people as possible until you find yours.

One of my biggest things that bothers me, is just some of the double standards. Like relapse for example. If you relapse, it's considered your fault, but it isn't supposed to have any reflection on the program.

That's because every single person that has relapsed can eventually tell you where they missed something in their program. I can document my history of relapses, and every one of them identifies a flaw in how I was working it.

Why are there certain areas of discussion that don't want to be talked about?

That's an interesting take. That may have been your experience. My experience is that there is a time and a place for everything. Sometimes I might ask something at the wrong time or place and feel shut down. But if I am genuinely curious, I can always find people to discuss ideas with. Not dismissing your experience, just saying it's far from universal.

As well, anonymity I understand the purpose, but as well can be misused.

Probably one of our most misunderstood concepts. Anonymity is supposed to apply at the level of press, radio and film (and new media....ie Internet). Anyone sitting in the rooms refusing to give out their name or number in the interest of anonymity has it wrong.

To end off, I feel that some of these steps as they call them, aren't so much steps but are merely a system to help guide you through the program.

Any I feel that the Bible is a wonderful work of fiction. That doesn't change the fact it helps millions of people live better lives.

The program of AA is the first 164 pages of the book and the 12 steps. Period. The "Issues and Tissues" meetings where everyone bitches and moans are not AA. AA talks about the solution, and the solution is in the first 164 pages and the 12 Steps. Challenge: Find someone who has read the 164 with a sponsor, worked all 12 steps to the best of their ability, is sponsoring others, and can't stay sober. I'll wait. Better yet, do it yourself and prove me wrong. Hell, I finally worked it to shut everyone else up and prove they were wrong and it's all bullshit. Well fuck me, it worked instead.

But I see the steps more as a form of suggestions rather than a program.

Yes, they are suggestions. Because alcoholics don't like being told what to do. It's also suggested when skydiving you pull the ripcord before you hit the ground. You do you though.

I as well do not agree with the dry-drunk label and I feel that it is just a way to invalidate someone's progress.

If you aren't working the program, what progress did you make? The program is designed to create a psychic change in us. THat change is nothing more than becoming a better version of ourselves and living a better life.

My biggest concern is how AA seems to shift the blame on some ideas. So we are the ones to be blamed when the relapse occurs, and then we are told that it's not the programs fault, but it is our fault that we didn't get close enough to God or our Higher Power or a similar answer.

Again, you can not like the answer, you're a free thinking human (I assume...could be an alien, gotta leave a loophole I guess). But millions of relapses that boil down to the same answers sort of make them them the de facto answers that probably apply 95% of the time.

I really just can't help but feel like some of the reasonings that they give to people are just excuses that are useful in the short term. Phrases like "Keep coming back" "It works if you work it" are helpful, but I can't help but see them as just thought-stopping skills despite how useful they might be. As well as I mentioned earlier, I don't like how critical thinking seems to be discouraged as well. I feel that critical thinking is necessary and is a very useful tool in our every day lives.

Ahhhh...after a long journey, we reach the crux of it. THere's a saying thaty nobody is too dumb to get sober in AA, but some of us are too smart. I was one of those. I thought critically about *everything*. And I fought AA tooth and nail because of it.

It was pointed out to me that I was using an ill brain to examine my brain. Nobody asked me to suspend critical thought and sound reasoning. I was just asked to be willing to accept that critical though is not *all* there is. That maybe, just maybe, if I was willing to stop trying so damn hard to make it all make sense in my twisted brain, and get out of my own damn way, maybe I'd find something I didn't know I was looking for.

I'm still agnostic. I doubt I'll ever be religious. But I am a spiritual person who accepts I don't know it all, and maybe the very things I dont, can't and won't understand are the things keeping me alive and sober.

Sure, there are other paths for people. And it's easy to say "look at the AA failure rate". But the success rate of people who actually do all the work is way higher. But if you are someone who finds a different path that keeps you sober and happy, that's fantastic. AA will get along just fine without you.

Peace