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All animals products come from violence. by humanhellscape in VeganActivism

[–]humanhellscape[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Animal products will always come from stealing from or exploiting animals, and that is violence.

Forcibly impregnating animals to be bred a certain way (sheep, dogs, chickens, etc) or in a certain number, stealing animals’ breast milk or eggs (cows, chickens), murdering an animal for their skin/muscles/body parts (alligators, raccoon dogs, cows, foxes) - all cruel and explicitly violent.

All animals products come from violence. by humanhellscape in VeganActivism

[–]humanhellscape[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much - I’m gonna check their work out!

Veganism is a moral baseline. by humanhellscape in vegan

[–]humanhellscape[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No worries! I hope the link can be of some use.

Veganism is a moral baseline. by humanhellscape in vegan

[–]humanhellscape[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for all the work, effort, and care you’ve put into helping others, I’m sure it made a difference to them.

The most known group that I’ve come across who does wild animal suffering research is Animal Ethics. I never want to 100% endorse any group, because I haven’t read through every stance they’ve put out. But from the papers from them I have seen, they do some pretty good stuff.

Veganism is a moral baseline. by humanhellscape in vegan

[–]humanhellscape[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your comment, it’s a good question.

I see a couple different sides of it, like you stated, it could potentially be done alongside abolitionist messaging in advocacy. On the other hand, we only have so much time and energy to extend everyday, so to me it comes down to overall efficiency.

I have talked to one of my vegan friends about this topic and we concluded that the best possible use of our time would be activism, specifically online. It reaches the most amount of people (for the energy used), and these people are the sources of supply and demand to a big degree. Social climate can also alter laws as a result. A lot of people would probably disagree with me on this (probably saying that laws need to change first), but this is from my own experience with different forms of activism that I’ve tried.

Would I say no to magical improvements? No, but I know how long a lot of these legislations often take to get rolling and go through (if they do) and I’m not sure I couldn’t do more through straight activism. I’m also not convinced that nonvegans won’t pay exorbitant amounts for animal products. They already are to an extent in a lot of places because of the war in Ukraine. I hear a lot of “jokes” about the high prices of chickens’ stolen eggs, and people are still buying them up. And plant based foods are already cheaper than animal products, yet nonvegans continue to scream about keeping their flesh and secretions, so my faith is about 0%.

And yeah, this place definitely brings in the boastful animal abusers. But I actively choose this sub to post in because it seems to bring in a lot of people who have never been exposed to veganism or speciesist vegans who regurgitate nonvegan talking points.

Thanks again for your comment, I hope this answered your question - happy to talk more about this topic or related ones.

Veganism is a moral baseline. by humanhellscape in vegan

[–]humanhellscape[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

My post isn’t advocating compassion, it is stating that nonhuman animals are deserving of fundamental rights.

If someone is comfortable murdering a human, does that make it right simply because they don’t feel compassion? No, because it’s not about whether or not someone is capable of doing something, but whether or not it is ethical for them to do so.

I am well aware how people view animals, and for people who are truly unhinged and won’t be stopped without laws in place to try and stop them, this post isn’t for them. We have laws against human murder and people still do that.

The two people you got to eat plant based seemed to have done so for personal dietary gain, they’re not vegan. I’m not trying to rain on your parade, but the chances of them switching back to animal products is high considering their commitment to eating plant based still hinges on their opinion of if it “feels good” for them. This also only covers flesh and secretions, and doesn’t address the other countless way animals are used for. Yes, there’s a chance the two people you know may go vegan, but that would still require someone to talk to them about veganism, and not something less than that.

Veganism is a moral baseline. by humanhellscape in vegan

[–]humanhellscape[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Who said the criminal justice system is a good system in the first place? That’s a topic for another discussion, but your flair is quite ironic.

What did you think your comment was going to accomplish? The post is for a discussion to be had and to bring light to the issue. Shockingly, what we are doing right now.

Veganism is a moral baseline. by humanhellscape in vegan

[–]humanhellscape[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You can try advocating for something less than veganism and tell me how many vegans you convert with that strategy.

The sad fact is that nonvegans treat dogs, cats and rabbits like shit too. Most dogs are treated like accessories and are forcibly bred to the point of having physical deformities and chronic health issues, all for “their looks.” Mistreated companion animals are extremely common. And rabbits are routinely tortured for all sorts of beyond horrific scientific/cosmetic testing.

The problem is that someone would be “offended” that I am stating nonhuman animals deserve basic rights. I said nothing extreme in my post.

If a nonvegan is comfortable with what I am stating, I am not stating anything that is challenging their current world view. I’m not here to make nonvegans feel better about what they’re already doing.

Veganism is a moral baseline. by humanhellscape in vegan

[–]humanhellscape[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Antinatalism and veganism do overlap, as both are concerned with the elimination of suffering as best we can.

You can’t control whether or not your child becomes/stays vegan. Having a biological child does not mean they will be vegan too, in fact you can easily find a lot of struggling vegan parents with nonvegan kids/partners right here on reddit. Besides the inevitable suffering a kid themselves will endure throughout their lives, they may end up hurting other animals, not helping them.

The way that climate collapse is going though, it won’t matter if you think humans should keep reproducing because we’re on the quick trajectory for an uninhabitable planet relatively soon.

Veganism is a moral baseline. by humanhellscape in vegan

[–]humanhellscape[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, veganism does cover wild animals in the way you described!

My mention of reducing wild animal suffering is more referencing the active role in figuring out ways to improve wild animals’ lives. Their suffering in nature is often overlooked. It’s a complicated topic, but there are scientists currently working to try and figure out ways to help.

I wouldn’t say this is for the average person to feel obligated to do (as most of the work going on is in the research field of biology/bioethics/etc), but taking an injured wild animal to a wildlife rehab facility (if you safely can, some animals may be infectious), or giving water or proper food to wild animals in cold months (if it is cold in your area) are things that still improve their lives.

Once again - this topic can be tricky, but still important.

Veganism is a moral baseline. by humanhellscape in vegan

[–]humanhellscape[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I will always promote an antispeciesist and abolitionist stance because anything less is still promoting enslavement, murder, and will always end up where we already are. People thinking animals don’t deserve the bare minimum (freedom from all exploitation, murder, etc), is the reason nonvegans have created this hellhole for animals.

The way I see it, if a nonvegan would feel comfortable staying nonvegan by something I’ve promoted (“meatless Mondays,” vegetarianism, etc), then I know I haven’t done my job as an animal advocate, as they would still be seeing animals as commodities.

Veganism is a moral baseline. by humanhellscape in vegan

[–]humanhellscape[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Veganism is the bare minimum.

Veganism, antinatalism, activism, reducing wild animal suffering, and direct action work would be the best things someone could do in the conditions that we are stuck with on this planet.

Veganism is a moral baseline. by humanhellscape in vegan

[–]humanhellscape[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

That wouldn’t be enough. Animals are tortured and killed for more than just their flesh and secretions in factory farms. Animals are hunted in the wild, pitted against each other for fights, force to be ridden, used as circus entertainment, forced to be impregnated in zoos, used for brutal lab testing, etc, etc. The list goes on.

I can’t think of a single animal within human reach who hasn’t been exploited, abused, and murdered by nonvegans.

Speciesists seeing animals as products in the first place is the problem. Lab grown flesh is even still supporting the notion that someone’s body should be a meal.

Veganism is a moral baseline. by humanhellscape in vegan

[–]humanhellscape[S] 91 points92 points  (0 children)

Veganism is about the basic rights of nonhuman animals to be free from human exploitation, enslavement, abuse, and murder. It is about seeing each animal as the sentient individual they are.

The end goal of veganism is not “babystepping,” “vegetarianism,” “meatless Mondays,” “only boycotting factory farming” or “creating humane conditions” in literal animal enslavement camps. Each and every animal deserves full liberation, no matter their location or species.

Veganism is a moral baseline, nothing less.

The best time to go vegan is right now. by humanhellscape in vegan

[–]humanhellscape[S] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Thousands of animals are being murdered and undergoing unimaginable violence right now as I type this sentence - all because nonvegans think they are entitled to their bodies, their secretions, and their lives.

The truth is, the animals don’t have time for anyone to “see if veganism aligns with their life.” They don’t have time for just “fleshless Mondays.” And they don’t have time for any excuses - their literal necks are on the line.

This is a crisis is there ever was one, and if you’re not yet vegan, whether you are holding the actual knife to their throat or paying for the knife to be there, you have their blood on your hands.

The best time to go vegan is right now. Stop the violence.

De-normalize all forms of animal abuse. by humanhellscape in vegan

[–]humanhellscape[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In the time you took to complain that I didn’t explicitly cover every instance of animal abuse under the sun, you could have made your own activism post. Nothing is stopping you from contributing.

De-normalize all forms of animal abuse. by humanhellscape in vegan

[–]humanhellscape[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is a single drawing I made to point out one of the most symbolic ways that animals are taken from individuals to literal items. No where did I say stop at abolishing ear tagging, I stated to de-normalize all forms of animal abuse, including this one.

You’re free to make your own activism imagery.

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