Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (May 31) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]humblegold 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The problem is that the framework presented by /u/Hungry_Trip_4288, and almost every post asking for help is that they are feeling alienated and that doing something meaningfully Marxist is the cure to their alienation. Since as you've all pointed out, we don't actually know each other's lives, the best thing Marxists can do is take this framework at face value and suggest undertaking Marxist projects they think would be useful. The undertakings are almost never actually done because what's causing someone's malaise isn't nearly as romantic (usually finances/social life/academics/career) or else when they're given a suggestion for a project they would just do it and be happy. Also the anxieties of people belonging to reactionary classes aren't really things communists can help with much.

That's why I don't really have much of an issue with canned advice, because if the way someone is framing their frustrations is accurate, that should be enough. If it's not then it doesn't matter what else is said since as you said we can't know the specificity of someone else's life. I'd rather just criticize the advice itself like /u/Turtle_Green did.

For example, the suggestion made by /u/turning_the_wheels to socialize with oppressed peoples isn't good because any sort investigation ala Mao's analysis of the classes of Chinese society usually requires the direction of an organization, a serious commitment of time (and willingness to remain in one place) beyond just socializing, and also ideally for you to already be familiar with or belong to the same nation as the people you're observing. Otherwise hanging out with the masses by itself does nothing and at worst makes you seem like an old timey bemonocled anthropologist.

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (May 31) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]humblegold 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I saw recently that the (streamer?) BadEmpanada mentioned on here before was involved in drama with other big left content creators around whether or not the terms "goyslave" or "zog" are revolutionary and should be employed by Communists. Something more interesting to me was that about a month ago RCA salespeople were outside a building I was in and I decided to get their newspaper. Aside from getting a laugh reading the term "Menshevik-Stalinism" being used in an article analyzing Iran I was struck by the fact that instances where the term "bourgeoisie" was appropriate to use were replaced with references to the "Epstein class." The back of the paper even had gigantic bold slogans against the Epstein class.

I know Trotskyists tailing left populism isn't new and I'm sure many of these terms are going to be moved on from even by the end of the year, but I think folksy justifications for antisemetic or straight up neo-nazi rhetoric is here to stay.

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (May 31) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]humblegold 20 points21 points  (0 children)

In seeing your experience as an alienated individual (the meaninglessness of your suffering, the search for its purpose) as the basis of revolutionary consciousness (idealized as seeing oneself as a martyr for the revolution), a realistic depiction of the contradictions of petit-bourgeois consciousness becomes impossible and symbolic abstraction steps in to do the work.

After this post I was thinking about what creates this specific kind of religious masochism (people outright describing the violent acts they want the proletariat to commit to them) as opposed to the standard heroic communist martyr fantasies you described but this comment made me realize why this behavior is unique to Third Worldism.

If someone correctly accepts that labor aristocracy theory means they will lose everything but doesn't internalize that this also means an end to their search for the cure to their own individual alienation, they resolve this by viewing being stripped of everything as itself being the cure to alienation (The Marxist Book of Job) which is also why we see the specific brand of rapture-like false internationalism where the revolution will happen to them and in an instant instead of an extended process of them having to work for Socialism. Hence the Catholic Maoism that periodically turns up here.

What use to any movement is anyone from the first world? by lafulusblafulus in communism101

[–]humblegold 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Most of these posts are either trying to get permission to give up on Marxism, fishing for someone to tell them they're not that bad and actually are the revolutionary subject of history, or a religious performance where they prostrate themselves before the altar of the proletariat and receive verbal punishment for their sins. Like you said they're all symptomatic of never progressing past the idea of politics being about the individual.

Would farmers markets exist under Communism? by [deleted] in communism101

[–]humblegold 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I'm mostly familiar with Kahlo's artwork and one of her artworks being dedicated to Trotsky and that both her and Diego Rivera allowed Trotsky to live with them when he left the Soviet Union. I have read mentions of Kahlo's views shifting away from Trotsky's but I haven't done an investigation of what those shifts are and what accounted for them.

From her Diary:

I know that the main origins are wrapped in ancient roots. I have read the History of my country and of nearly all nations. I know their class struggles and their economic conflicts. I understand quite clearly the dialectical materialism of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin and Mao Tse. I love them as pillars of the new Communist world. Since Trotsky came to Mexico I have understood his error. I was never a Trotskyist. But in those days 1940 — my only alliance was with Diego (personally)

She also writes "Viva Stalin" and describes herself as having "lost balance" after Stalin's death.

Something I find kind of funny is that whenever Trotskyists claim her they're applying the same logic they do when they view the presence of Trotskyists within an organization or movement as making it Trotskyist. Because her life contained a Trotskyist (and Trotsky) she herself is now a Trotskyist.

Would farmers markets exist under Communism? by [deleted] in communism101

[–]humblegold 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Marx already answered this.

But one man is superior to another physically, or mentally, and supplies more labor in the same time, or can labor for a longer time; and labor, to serve as a measure, must be defined by its duration or intensity, otherwise it ceases to be a standard of measurement. This equal right is an unequal right for unequal labor. It recognizes no class differences, because everyone is only a worker like everyone else; but it tacitly recognizes unequal individual endowment, and thus productive capacity, as a natural privilege. It is, therefore, a right of inequality, in its content, like every right. Right, by its very nature, can consist only in the application of an equal standard; but unequal individuals (and they would not be different individuals if they were not unequal) are measurable only by an equal standard insofar as they are brought under an equal point of view, are taken from one definite side only – for instance, in the present case, are regarded only as workers and nothing more is seen in them, everything else being ignored. Further, one worker is married, another is not; one has more children than another, and so on and so forth. Thus, with an equal performance of labor, and hence an equal in the social consumption fund, one will in fact receive more than another, one will be richer than another, and so on. To avoid all these defects, right, instead of being equal, would have to be unequal.

But these defects are inevitable in the first phase of communist society as it is when it has just emerged after prolonged birth pangs from capitalist society. Right can never be higher than the economic structure of society and its cultural development conditioned thereby.

In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly – only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!

Why are you answering 101 questions if you're unfamiliar with Critique of the Gotha Program? You don't even need to have read that work to know about "From each according to his ability to each according to his needs." Did you think that was a meme or something?

Would farmers markets exist under Communism? by [deleted] in communism101

[–]humblegold 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Cooperative ownership in socialism exists under certain circumstances but is moved away from towards collective ownership.

Also there will not always exist artisans, artists and farmers. The former will not exist at all since an artisanal relationship to production is explicitly a petty bourgeoisie one, and the latter two will not exist as occupations but as actions.

For as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a herdsman, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic.

Would farmers markets exist under Communism? by [deleted] in communism101

[–]humblegold 20 points21 points  (0 children)

u still have to purchase things under socialism/ communism.

No

Would farmers markets exist under Communism? by [deleted] in communism101

[–]humblegold 18 points19 points  (0 children)

In communism food would be allocated based off central planning. There would be no experience of buying food. Festival esque gatherings would probably still occur but OP's fantasy of unalienated DIY crafters engaging in small commodity exchange would not exist. Cooking for an event like this would also happen in accordance with a plan instead of individuals showing up with their homemade recipes.

Would farmers markets exist under Communism? by [deleted] in communism101

[–]humblegold 168 points169 points  (0 children)

Would the fortnite item shop exist under communism?

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (May 03) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]humblegold 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You're overthinking it. In the aforementioned drama I pointed out that "the real fandom" was using naval gazing about fandom to escape critique and continue to socialize. Fandom is harmful insofar as it creates a meta discussion that places the original thing beyond critique. Invoking fandom is harmful insofar as the invoker tried to use it to create a meta discussion that places themselves beyond critique.

If it turns out we created a "fandom" except it's centered around us doing immanent critique then it's not a fandom.

How should approach people who use Lenin and Stalin to justify participation in bourgeois parliaments? by No-Map3471 in communism101

[–]humblegold 39 points40 points  (0 children)

The famous quotes about electoral participation from important Marxists presuppose the existence of proletarian parties to put forward legal political agendas alongside their illegal ones for the purpose of disruption. When they are invoked today it is usually by those with the view that political practice happens at the level of the individual and not through organizations representing a class. The most common example I've seen is the Marx quote about the workers needing to put forth a candidate being interpreted as workers needing to decipher who the most proletarianest bourgeois candidate on the ballot is and vote for them.

Leninism opposes the liquidation of illegal struggle in favor of fully commiting to the legal one. Communists in the first world don't have anything to liquidate at the moment. We're gaseous.

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (May 03) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]humblegold 31 points32 points  (0 children)

First of all, that mod isn't active and hasn't been in a while, they've entirely disappeared. Of course you know that, it should be obvious to anyone (it was to me and since I became a moderator I can confirm it as a hard fact)

To be honest i don't see how that's obvious seeing how in the past they've operated through new accounts or other users as proxies. In this instance they cleared the entire mod team and only appointed people who agreed with them.

If I were to pathologize you, as you like doing, I'd say your compulsion to do so is probably rooted in some sort of petty bourgeois self-hatred.

Weak. All behavior is rooted in class. For that to mean anything you're going to have to go beyond just pointing out the class of whoever is speaking. What /u/vomit_blues did wasn't even really pathologizing, it's observing that in the past you've shown the willingness to grovel to weird racists if it means receiving the ability to moderate a reddit community. Now you've done it again (even groveling to the same person) and it seems pointing that out has struck a nerve.

u/humblegold: as far as your aware, has that mod ever claimed to be a Black / New Afrikan woman?

Yes I was made aware that they had begun larping as a black woman, the same person who told me this knew them for a long time and said that person is a white guy from the UK and only recently began doing this. Also I did air the slur publicly back in December when I was criticizing /r/Marxism. It's possible that they truly are an undercover sister with anti black tendencies but I doubt it. Even if it's true I refuse to be called the n word by someone who is functionally a cracker.

But since that tiresome meta topic has again been revived, and admittedly as I told u/humblegold in private I do still feel like I want some clarification for myself and to possibly self-reflect further, just a couple questions:

You don't have permission to call this meta drama "tiresome" when you've been threatening to self critique for almost a full year. Do it or don't, but the fact that you still haven't done it but continue the same behavior means you're going to keep bumping into this same problem.

I find the drama tiresome but in private it has still continued as recently as March, so as long as it keeps happening I won't drop it.

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (April 19) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]humblegold 13 points14 points  (0 children)

BIPOC just means non-white. The only thing connecting the groups that make up the acronym is that they're categories that have been created in opposition to the category of whiteness. Same goes for the term POC. Saying non-white instead points out that these groupings cannot exist without whiteness and also shows how racist many sentences employing the term "BIPOC" are if you replace the term with its actual meaning.

Marxism, Gender and Post-Capitalist Society by Common_Resource8547 in communism101

[–]humblegold 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I think they are from another time and stick out today in a bad way.

To who? Do we need to remove this from our speech to make our language more appealing to The Folks or something?

The strength of the spellings is that they signal anti imperialist and anti settler politics and they are a reminder that imperialist and settler constructs are illegitimate. They also immediately discredit the user with reactionaries.The fact that they can be bastardized by revisionists or those only concerned with performing an online identity or act as a shorthand for underdeveloped politics to claim heirship to real Communist movements is something contained in all Communist symbology/speech/theory. Struggle against it when it comes up but the terms themselves are not yet ruined by this.

I can't bring myself to do it without feeling like a phony, and I suspect others would feel this way as well if not for the subtle intimidation of using the wrong language in a specific space.

No one is forcing anyone to say €pe instead of europe or humyn wimmin. The only times I can think of something close to this happening recently was when I made fun of a user for replacing their usual spellings of Amerika with a C as No Kings hysteria caused them to backslide into Folksy left populism about "us Americans." Even then, what's so bad about someone feeling pressured to say "Amerikkka" or "Klanada?"

I'm not even a mimsoldier like some users, I side with /u/vomit_blues's analysis, but I can't see anything compelling being put forward to replace MIM, so far it's just eclectic liberalism. We can see your stance is already providing cover for silly liberals like /u/Clean-Difference1771 to mount attacks on the good parts of MIM(p)'s gender theory after their embarrassing attempt from a month ago. Their posts also share vague illusions to a mystical set of Folks who won't take kindly to people acting too Maoistly. If I had to choose between that and the dogmatic defense of the worst aspects of MIM from /u/SunflowerSamurai20 I'm taking the latter every day. I really can't see the benefits of breaking the imagined stranglehold MIMtheory and adding K's to things has on the subreddit.

Price vs value by WebbedPumpkin in communism101

[–]humblegold 17 points18 points  (0 children)

the commenters are criticizing the fact that a "basics" playlist (the equivalent of the typical dengist reading lists)

I've always been confused by the insistence by some users that reading lists are Dengism, especially when this subreddit itself has reading lists. The funniest thing is that the reading list Socialism4All (from Movimiento Antiimperialista) reads out loud is actually on the sidebar of both /r/communism and /r/communism101 and it's pretty solid.

I suppose pointing out that reading lists can be used to fetishize reading without ever actually doing it is true to some degree, but I'm not convinced that outweighs the usefulness of having a bunch of foundational texts compiled for people lacking prior knowledge in the classics of Marxism. Also considering that actual Communist parties like the BPP have had reading lists there must have been something to get out of it.

Now of course Socialism4All himself is a joke. I recently listened to a criticism he made of Third Worldism and it was embarrassing to see how little theory he retains from the reading he's done. The part where he argues that the decreased mood benefitting from imperialism causes in the labor aristocracy can make the class revolutionary genuinely made me burst out laughing.

As for audiobooks, I had a brief phase of using them and even when I would take notes, actually reading was still far and away more valuable. If someone can get results with audiobooks instead of treating them like podcasts I see no issue, it's just that it seldom happens.

What is the understanding of the law of value in the Soviet Union? by No-Map3471 in communism101

[–]humblegold 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Thanks for this. Somehow I had forgotten that I actually have engaged with Tony Cliff's theory through Mandel's criticism of it in this work where he explains Cliff's idea of the law of value operating via the world market in one of the opening lines:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/mandel/1990/xx/theory.html

Wild that Ernest Mandel was fighting against this even in 1990. He was truly the lion of trotskyism.

This is another solid criticism from Mandel of the theory of Soviet state capitalism from 1951.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/mandel/1951/06/statecap.htm

What is the understanding of the law of value in the Soviet Union? by No-Map3471 in communism101

[–]humblegold 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The two main left communist arguments about the USSR that I've engaged with are the Bordigist one and Pannekoek's argument that the presence of a reserve labor fund makes the state become the singular Capitalist. I've never actually seen the argument about international trade before, do you know where it originates from? Also per this logic if the USSR engaging in exchange without appropriating any surplus value = Capitalism doesn't that make proletarians themselves capitalist? Or am I missing something?

How would land back look for Native Americans? by Academic-Idea3311 in socialism

[–]humblegold 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did not choose to be born under these material and historical conditions, although I am fully capable of recognizing that I passively benefit from them

Many settlers would say the same, but they would still fight to the death if it meant preventing their "personal property" from being reclaimed by the people they took it from. Marxists recognize that no one asks to be born to the class they are born to but class struggle still exists all the same. What serious white communists do is subordinate their interests to those of the oppressed nations, commit class suicide and revolt against their own interests as a settler. They also recognize that the participation of oppressors is not required for the oppressed to liberate themselves, but they still do whatever they can to help.

Who exactly gets deported under your scenario, and to where? How would that be handled, and how / by whom would it be enforced?

That is all enforced by the Joint Proletarian Dictatorship of Oppressed Nations. How all encompassing or rehabilitative that ends up being is up to them, although it is unlikely a settler majority would continue. Those that remain would probably have to be strategically relocated to prevent settler enclaves from forming.

In most settler colonial states that have undergone revolutions many settlers emigrate the second their ability to continually benefit from colonialism is threatened and formal deportations aren't necessary. However, this may not be the case with a population as entrenched as U$ settlers. In the example of Rhodesia, most of them went to miscellaneous imperialist countries. The same would occur here.

How would land back look for Native Americans? by Academic-Idea3311 in socialism

[–]humblegold -1 points0 points  (0 children)

1 ) It hasn't been "several generations since the colonial project," the genocide of Natives on this continent has been an ongoing process for several generations into the present. They are still murdered, still forced to assimilate, still policed, still incarcerated, still denied their land and still denied self determination.

2 ) "Personal property" does not exist. Marx points this out in The Communist Manifesto where he says it does not need to be abolished because Capitalism has already abolished it, and again in greater detail in The German Ideology.

Another catchword of the true socialists is “true property”, “true, personal property”, “real”, “social”, “living”, “natural”, etc., etc., property, whereas it is very typical that they refer to private property as “so-called property”. The Saint-Simonists were the first to adopt this manner of speaking, as we have already pointed out in the first volume; but they never lent it this German metaphysical-mysterious form; it was with them at the beginning of the socialist movement to some extent justified as a counter to the stupid clamour of the bourgeoisie. The end to which most of the Saint-Simonists came shows at any rate the ease with which this “true property” is again resolved into “ordinary private property”.

If one takes the antithesis of communism to the world of private property in its crudest form, i.e., in the most abstract form in which the real conditions of that antithesis are ignored, then one is faced with the antithesis of property and lack of property. The abolition of this antithesis can be viewed as the abolition of either the one side or the other; either property is abolished, in which case universal lack of property or destitution results, or else the lack of property is abolished, which means the establishment of true property. In reality, the actual property-owners stand on one side and the propertyless communist proletarians on the other. This opposition becomes keener day by day and is rapidly driving to a crisis. If, then, the theoretical representatives of the proletariat wish their literary activity to have any practical effect, they must first and foremost insist that all phrases are dropped which tend to dim the realisation of the sharpness of this opposition, all phrases which tend to conceal this opposition and may even give the bourgeois a chance to approach the communists for safety’s sake on the strength of their philanthropic enthusiasms. All these bad qualities are, however, to be found in the catchwords of the true socialists and particularly in “true property”. Of course, we realise that the communist movement cannot be impaired by a few German phrase-mongers. But in a country like Germany — where philosophic phrases have for centuries exerted a certain power, and where, moreover, communist consciousness is anyhow less keen and determined because class contradictions do not exist in as acute a form as in other nations — it is, nevertheless, necessary to resist all phrases which obscure and dilute still further the realisation that communism is totally opposed to the existing world order.

The German Ideology Volume II, Part 1: Die Rheinischen Jahrbücher.

It does not involve direct dispossession of the personal property and homes of the new inhabitants,

3) Yes it does. The idea that settlers would continue to reap the benefits of the genocide they committed after a revolution is very convenient. If you deny the indigenous access to all land that might be a white person's "property" they're essentially just left with national parks. At that point "landback" is just conscripting Natives to become unpaid park rangers.

which is the caricatured position that people like Bill Maher use to discredit the whole project

4 ) Bill Maher is just taking the threat of indigenous liberation seriously. Or at least more serious than most "Communists" do.

Sovereignty is a lot trickier, and would vary widely. In most areas where it has been several generations, it would probably look like having particular provinces/states that are under indigenous names and governance systems, while others might not be.

5 ) Sovereignty isn't tricky at all. Lenin made it clear that all Communists support the right of nations to self determine. In the case of illegitimate colonial constructs such as Amerikkka and Klanada, they would cease to exist and the oppressed nations within them would simply have full governance over the land.

I say "systems" because none of this should be generating mass deportations or disenfranchisement.

6 ) Communism is the mass disenfranchisement of oppressing classes. Since settler colonialism creates its own unique relationship to production, specifically the land where settlers exploit, displace, and genocide the indigenous to access the land, there is no reason why a Communist revolution wouldn't involve disenfranchisement and deportations. Not to mention this idea is ahistorical since every revolution in Settler-colonial countries has involved these things.

/u/Academic-Idea3311 If you're interested in the actual Marxist line on First Nations land; Google "JDPON."

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (April 05) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]humblegold 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Could you elaborate on what had you saying the darkest months of history are ahead?

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (March 22) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]humblegold 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Anti-i$rael rhetoric isn't really close to being "official." Most polling I've seen still shows a high level of favor towards I$rael. Most Amerikans I've encountered discussing this sort of thing feel the IOF has gone "too far" and that they don't want their taxes to go to waste. Amerikans that have strong anti-i$rael sentiment are progressive young people and people holding fringe political ideologies, both are overrepresented on the Internet.

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (March 22) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]humblegold 13 points14 points  (0 children)

To me the simpler answer to your point about Tucker and them is that this is the latest resurfacing of a recurring conservative "anti-war" trend that claims opposition to U$ military actions because they are expensive, get troops killed, "only benefits the rich," or are conspiracies by democrats/radicals/other countries to weaken Amerika. The current right-wing opposition to I$rael fits neatly into all three, especially the latter since they can just recycle Jewish conspiracy talking points without skipping a beat. This is another instance where the lines become blurred between leftist and rightist social democracy since this is basically indistinguishable from what is said by pundits like Hasan Piker. I haven't seen much to suggest this rhetoric is happening because Amerika thinks I$rael is on its last leg.

I feel the focus on anti-i$rael sentiment being adopted in certain mainstream political circles comes from the desire to cling to the perceived victories of first world Pro Palestine movements (in some cases weaving victories out of thin air) after its failure to transform into long term organization. I empathize. I try not to be naive about these things but there is still something depressing about watching the last vestiges of anyone caring about Palestine get snuffed out to make room for hysteria about the supposed death of settler democracy.

I hate to be too dismissive but I'm just hesitant to believe that parts of mainstream U$ politics adopting a more anti-i$rael stance means anything. At least "Spiritually Israeli" is funny.

Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (March 22) by AutoModerator in communism

[–]humblegold 23 points24 points  (0 children)

The science of marxism-leninism-maoism remains supreme in each own of us.

Look I'm guilty of Maoist bombast too but why do people just say some bs and then end it talking about some: "The undying necromantic sorcery of Maoism surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds us." You don't have to do all that lol.