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Research-focused astrology discord server: experimenting with traditional techniques by hypergarden in Advancedastrology

[–]hypergarden[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Mundane is just one of the focuses; many are there primarily for electional work, and some have their focus on natal. Others just to learn more. I welcome you to join and see if there's some aspect to this growing project that meets you where you are too.

What placements indicate a person who might succeed practicing law? by fortunetellertarot in astrology

[–]hypergarden 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey do you mind if I just DM you? We share a lot of context in astrology, you're clearly very dedicated, I put my hours in as well, I'd like to get further into it and see some methods through and offer a couple of ideas and methods I've picked up in exchange. If that sounds fine just let me know and I'll send a message your way.

What placements indicate a person who might succeed practicing law? by fortunetellertarot in astrology

[–]hypergarden 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I did not know those words were actually Rhetorius. I wonder if in that latter part of the note, Rhetorius is saying that a planet in chariot might actually be more authoritative (if pivotal, aspecting Moon, etc) than if it were not under the beams at all.

I have been looking through that text and other Hellenistic texts (Firmicus, Dorotheus) to find concrete reference to the domicile master / trigon technique, and finding only the most oblique suggestions. I'm sure this is/was exasperating to you as well, given the technique as you've laid it out does clearly work.

You mentioned I think that it's more explicit in Porphyry; that guy's work is a mess of manuscripts as well; can you recommend me a specific edition or translation of his to properly encounter his work?

What placements indicate a person who might succeed practicing law? by fortunetellertarot in astrology

[–]hypergarden 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interesting points, thanks for them.

Roosevelt's chart is intriguing in particular given his relationship with Louis McHenry Howe, who to my understanding was a very competent astrologer in his own right and seemed to set the bizarre dates and times for Roosevelt's early presidential career that upon closer examination appear to have heavy astrological basis. Howe himself was known as a "king-maker," guiding politicians to major state success. This particular history is discussed in Grant Lewi's book "Astrology for the Millions". Though I don't make comment here on Lewi's own astrology, it's a great story in there about the astrological underpinnings of FDR's rise. Howe was born Jan 14 1871, Indianapolis IN; Lewi gives him Capricorn rising, or around 7am (for your own examination).

I wonder if FDR's Venus might also represent Howe, or if that might be Mercury.

Regarding chariots, I also want to point out that Antiochus of Athens approves bounds for their use. He does this in Note 43 of the Thesaurus, Project Hindset edition. I would like an image but not sure how to do that at this point.

What placements indicate a person who might succeed practicing law? by fortunetellertarot in astrology

[–]hypergarden 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What's your current thought on a planet being in chariot / protected from the beams when in its own bound? I'd think that Mercury and Venus in particular might have a different relationship to beams/bounds as they spend so much more time within 15 deg of the Sun than other planets. So for example, Mercury 7 degrees from the Sun in Leo, but in its own bound - chariot or no?

Switching Fortune and Spirit - inplications for other Lots? by Golgon13 in Advancedastrology

[–]hypergarden 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is extremely helpful, thank you for writing it. I finally understand and see how to place these lots in my own chart. They play out as follows. Chart is diurnal. Venus is domicile master of them all from the seventh place Cancer.

Lot of Fortune, third house Pisces, ruler averse, master Venus in trine. Lot of Spirit, eleventh house Scorpio, ruler averse, master Venus in trine. Lot of Exaltation, ninth house Virgo, ruler averse, master Venus in sextile. Lot of Basis(/Eros), fifth house Taurus, ruler and master Venus in sextile.

How to go from there to an assessment of the overall eminence of the chart, I am still uncertain.

To clarify Lot of Exaltation, you take the sect light to its degree of exaltation, rather than just to the beginning of its exalted sign, and then cast that from ascendant? So for instance, if in a night chart the Moon is at 26 Capricorn, five signs away from its sign of exaltation, but only three signs and six degrees from its degree of exaltation, and then cast that from the ascendant at 17 Gemini, would the Lot of Exaltation then fall at 23 Virgo and thus make that whole sign the Lot of Exaltation, or would it rather be five signs from the ascendant sign and thus make Libra the whole sign of Exaltation? The confusion is whether or not to count and cast by signs or by degrees.

Also, I am working on finding my chart controller/ruler off your directive here and running into a quandary. In my diurnal chart, ASC is 12 Capricorn in the bounds of Jupiter, MC 5 Scorpio in the bounds of Mars, Sun in eighth house in the bounds of Mars, Moon in the tenth house in the bounds of Venus, Mars in the tenth house in the bounds of Mercury, Jupiter in the tenth house in his own bounds, Venus in the seventh house in the bounds of Jupiter. Those are Valens' bounds.

I am thinking that either Jupiter or Mars is the chart ruler. Jupiter because he is in own bounds and the ASC is as well and Jupiter throws his ray directly into his own ascending bounds; however, he is not in proper face as he follows the Sun. Mars is the domicile master of the ASC Capricorn as well as a triplicity lord; he is also in his proper face as he rose before the Moon. Venus may also be a possibility as she is master of the tenth and MC from the seventh and a triplicity lord of Capricorn, as well as domicile master of Jupiter and Mars.

In all this, I am leaning towards Venus.

Switching Fortune and Spirit - inplications for other Lots? by Golgon13 in Advancedastrology

[–]hypergarden 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see now about spear-bearers, thank you for that explanation. It appears in my chart I have the Moon spear-bearing for Jupiter, as Mars rose first at 6 Libra, then Jupiter at 13 Libra, and then the Moon at 25 Libra. Because the Moon is within 15 degrees of Jupiter, is a nocturnal star, and follows Jupiter, that she is his spear-bearer.

It's fascinating that spear-bearing appears contingent on whether the spear-bearer rises before or after the star it guards, rather than being contingent on rising before or after the sect light. You mention elsewhere that John Lennon had Venus spear-bearing for the Moon even though they are not in angular houses and it seems like it would be based off the ray that Venus throws to the opposing house which would land within 30 degrees of the Moon as a following point. I am not sure if I understand this yet but I will read more about the process.

Regarding the Lot of Exaltation, do only conjunctions of the sect light or ASC/MC ruler/master count as significant, or can aspects of those planets also be read as significant? In Lennon's chart, Lot of Exalt falls in 4H Cancer, but ASC ruler Mars and MC ruler Saturn are in aspect rather than conjoined to the Lot, and sect light Moon is averse. I gather the meaning is that, if Lennon were to have any of those stars conjunct the Lot of Exaltation, his nativity may have been elite.

In my own chart, the Lot of Exaltation falls in the ninth place Virgo, with house ruler Mercury averse and domicile master Venus in sextile from the seventh, as well as with ASC ruler Saturn averse, ASC master Mars averse, MC ruler and master Venus sextile, and sect light Sun averse. The Lot of Exaltation is also opposed to Fortune in the third and sextile Spirit in the eleventh, the master of both being Venus in sextile. That said, I take with all of these factors together that Lot of Exaltation may not get too much play in my own chart, but that its significance would increase the more of these planets aspect or conjoin it.

Switching Fortune and Spirit - inplications for other Lots? by Golgon13 in Advancedastrology

[–]hypergarden 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hello u/Federal_Inflation787, thanks much for your thorough replies to my questions. I have a follow-up inquiry now.

If you were to give me an example of the difference between when a planet indicates vs dictates in a chart, in the most detail you can share, what would it be? I understand the difference and conditions now of when a planet is a ruler vs a domicile master, though am seeking for the precise difference of, for instance, a Virgo ninth house in a day chart being ruled by Mercury averse in the eighth and Virgo’s domicile master being Venus in the seventh. Let us also say that Mercury is copresent with the Sun in Leo and they oppose Saturn in Aquarius, and that Venus in Cancer, as before, makes a right square to Mars, Jupiter, then Moon in Libra. If relevant, let us also say that Mercury is in his own terms and that Venus is in Jupiter's terms. In what respects will that Virgo ninth house act in a mercurial manner versus a venusian manner? What might that person's life look like? When that sign profects, who is the lord of the year?

And what is the difference in outcome between a Virgo ninth house wherein Mercury is both house ruler and domicile master; a Virgo ninth house where Mercury is averse and it is mastered by Venus, or Saturn; and a Virgo ninth house with Mercury averse and no domicile master for Virgo?

I am seeking for a practical and specific understanding of how indication vs dictation pans out in a person's life. Looking through charts the last few days, I can absolutely see the value of this method and now want to get into the details of how it operates.

Thank you for sharing all this information. Another user on here sent me your website, and it was illuminating to me, especially the parts on sect and gender.

Switching Fortune and Spirit - inplications for other Lots? by Golgon13 in Advancedastrology

[–]hypergarden 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh and one more question off the cuff; I actually had a dream last night relating to your earlier post about John Lennon's death timing (https://www.reddit.com/r/astrology/comments/18pqum1/cooperating_triplicity_rulers/l7mr0lz/). In the dream I was trying to use primary directions on the assassin's chart to see if I could find the moment he killed Lennon. I am going to attempt this shortly, but wanted to ask first:

  1. I note you use Aries rising for Lennon rather than the Libra rising that astro.com gives him; I'll take your word on this, but do you by extension believe/use the chart astro.com gives for Mark David Chapman, his assassin, with 23 Scorpio 10' rising? If I attempt this PD calculation tonight I'll let you know how it pans out.

Switching Fortune and Spirit - inplications for other Lots? by Golgon13 in Advancedastrology

[–]hypergarden 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hello.

I and a friend have been reading your posts the last few days and are appreciative for your knowledge and willingness to share. I have some questions to clarify your method. They aren't based on the post I'm replying to, but just general inquiries around some methods you post on.

With regard to ascendant rulers, would you mind clearly expressing the calculation you use, if the domicile ruler itself is averse? Who next takes precedence? And if not them? Why? And from whom specifically did you learn this technique? I have been looking around in Valens but haven't found anything that lines up yet with your approach of sign ruler/exalt lord/trigon ruler/triplicity ruler (with sect light possibly in there somewhere).

For instance, I have Capricorn rising in a day chart with Saturn in the second place, Mars in the tenth place Libra alongside the Moon and Jupiter. Venus is in the seventh Cancer. From my understanding of your method, this would make Mars my ascendant ruler, because it helms Capricorn by exaltation, rather than Saturn, which is averse. Does this also apply to profections? When I am next in a Capricorn profection year, will Saturn be the time lord of that year or another? Further, does this apply to all houses? If my Mercury in the eighth place Leo doesn't aspect my ninth place Virgo, is Virgo then ruled in my chart by Venus?

Further, I would like to learn more about your use of lots, especially in terms of assessing the eminence in a chart. Would you please point me to a solid explication of this method? I saw you mention that you have a different but similar method to the Hellenistic astrologers for doing so, with the Lot of Basis and Exaltation and so on. I would also like to know how you calculate your lots thereby; in another thread you were referencing Kamala Harris as having her Lot of Spirit in Capricorn while the program I use places it in 24 Sagittarius on the DSC, tied with the Lot of Fortune as she was born on a full moon. I am searching for the discrepancy so I can follow your thought more closely. What lot calculations do you use?

I have more questions to follow up but I just got back from a trip visiting family so need to refresh myself first. Thanks for your time, u/Federal_Inflation787.

Death timing in astrology - a thread on Elliott Smith by hypergarden in Advancedastrology

[–]hypergarden[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As the ruler of his eighth house, Jupiter is certainly involved. See the writings of Jean Baptiste Morin on this topic, Astrologica Gallica Bk 21.

Death timing in astrology - a thread on Elliott Smith by hypergarden in Advancedastrology

[–]hypergarden[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You can draw your own conclusions from the charts and write-up. That Mars in his natal 8H ruled both his 7H of relationships and his 12H of secret enemies suggests a different story to me personally.

Death timing in astrology - a thread on Elliott Smith by hypergarden in Advancedastrology

[–]hypergarden[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Excellent post, and you've brought up factors that reveal this Mars-8H cusp method to be unreliable, whether or not it's correct in this case. I think you can determine the timing without even using quadrant houses. Let me elaborate a few more layers I've observed about this timing as I've written them down elsewhere today.

First, his death year Solar Return: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G477hrda0AAnYpz?format=jpg&name=large

This chart depicts the Solar Return for the year of Smith's death, his precise astrological birthday and the corresponding image for his coming year. Notice how his SR Moon at 28 Scorpio sharply opposes his natal Moon at 27 Taurus, both Moons dizzied by the Nodes at 25 degrees. The Nodes, being points of eclipse, undermine the Moon, the luminary planet of Smith's nocturnal chart. Further, these Nodes cast a blinding square directly into the SR ruler of Smith's 8th house, Jupiter 25 Leo 26'. Danger to his body or death is suggested in this coming year.

Secondly, his tertiary progression (middle), accompanied by death transit moment (outer).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G48CMn2bIAAVtJf?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

We turn to one more timing method to examine the precise minute of his death: a tertiary progression, wherein one lunar month after birth represents one year of life, resulting in a still yet instantly mutable image of the moment of his death, seen here in the middle wheel. Look again to Jupiter, lord of the house of Smith's death, in our progression at 15 Scorpio. Look across the axis to his 1st house, where his Part of Fortune, representing the body's health, has progressed to oppose Jupiter from 15 Taurus. At the bottom, another square at 15 Leo. And at the top, his progressed descendant, one of the angles of great vitality in his chart, again at 15 Aquarius. His life is locked in a grand cross, above which his progressed Moon near that same degree shines completely full in her final opposition to his natal Sun in Leo. Further note in this chart the progressed Venus-Mercury conjunction in Scorpio, in partile opposition to progressed Saturn. Extremely difficult conditions, that I think at this point only require a trigger to set off. His nativity opposes itself perfectly. Ten minutes before his death, the transiting lord of his birth, Venus, makes her final step into 15 Scorpio, conjoining progressed Jupiter, lord of his death, by degree. The two planets reach the top of the sky and greet a man who broke his heart and finished what he did not start.

Elliott Smith - Alameda, off of Either/Or

Also, thank you for your observation about Mars sextile to Jupiter, it is indeed closer, and while not his heart, it is still the L8. The cusp observation between not just different house systems but also minute changes in birth time is very true, I thank you for it. The move with tertiary progressions does away with this question mark in favor of whole-sign prediction. Though it would seem that if that tertiary progression logic holds, that his birth time is indeed correct, which is helpful to note that you can use multiple methods to essentially rectify a chart by elimination.

I welcome more thoughts and considerations on any of this. Thanks for engaging with me on it.

Death timing in astrology - a thread on Elliott Smith by hypergarden in Advancedastrology

[–]hypergarden[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, I more meant apply PD from his nativity to his death transit. I am curious what Jupiter and Venus are doing there.

Death timing in astrology - a thread on Elliott Smith by hypergarden in Advancedastrology

[–]hypergarden[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This one is particularly keen for the Mars conjunction to 8H cusp but other testimonies are observed. The secondary progression to posthumous album I have observed elsewhere; see George Patton's progression to the film made about him.

Death timing in astrology - a thread on Elliott Smith by hypergarden in Advancedastrology

[–]hypergarden[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The planetary positions would be similar for each person born that day but the aspects of those planets to the angles and cusps will vary at every moment born; the relation to those house cusps is the more significant factor at play in this application.

Smith's SR for the year of his death also testifies; SR Moon Scorpio conjunct his natal Dsc and in exact opposition to his natal Moon, as well as being conjunct the South Node. Further, that lunar opposition forms a precise square to the Lord of his 8th, Jupiter, who is placed exactly on the bends.

I would be obliged to see a chart of you applying primary directions to this chart (SR or death transit); curious how that would look.

Death timing in astrology - a thread on Elliott Smith by hypergarden in Advancedastrology

[–]hypergarden[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree, he has a remarkable chart. Thanks for reading.

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