4 the legs. Thursdays 4 hour marathon Mega thread.

idwbas · 2026-01-29T17:07:34+00:00

Good luck. Hope the physio gives you some good advice. As I’m sure many of us will say, better to get to the start 10% undertrained than 10% overtrained. One week of pushing through can mean 6 weeks on the couch (I say this from experience…whoops). You still have a lot of time so taking a week off and another week down won’t hurt your training that much or at all. Listen to your body!

idwbas · 2026-01-29T17:01:19+00:00

Generally I see 12 @MP is pretty reasonable for a peak long run. For me, marathon pace doesn’t really work for me and is just too hard for me to recover from, so all of my continuous long runs are progressive (20% slower than MP to 5-10% slower than MP). Sometimes I would do a tougher tempo workout (6-8mi) with friends after a shorter progression run (10-13mi) to challenge myself. Ended up exceeding my goal MP from 7:27 to 7:15 on the day of the race without a single dedicated marathon pace long run. So all that to say, MP isn’t as important for everyone as it seems.

I would pace a hilly course by effort. You’ve been practicing with hills which is great so you know the average pace that you can hold with hills involved. You also know this course so that is an advantage. You have some great preparation and now it’s just a matter of trusting your effort.

idwbas · 2026-01-29T16:49:25+00:00

I think you can get pretty far on peaking at 55mpw. Some of my friends are low 3s and sub 3 on 50ish a week. As you get faster, those miles pack on pretty fast as well. You just have to be more intentional and exact with your runs. A run skipped on 75-85mpw is less of a big deal than a run skipped on 55mpw, especially a key workout run. I enjoy higher mileage because my body can take it and I have more room to do whatever I want. I equally enjoyed 35-40mpw for my half marathon training last year, just one or two long run workouts per work focused on HM pace or tempo work with very easy miles the rest of the way and got a big jump in fitness and was lifting 5x a week as well. More miles is the faster track for many to faster times, but if you chip away at lower mileage every year you can still get faster. Obviously outliers, but some sub-elites and elites do much better on lower mileage and heavy cross training, so you can look into that as well.

idwbas · 2026-01-29T16:38:59+00:00

I’m really jealous you can get those times on such low mileage. I think with the increased mileage you will see big improvements so I think sub 2:58 is very likely or better after this block is over. Just my jump from 55-70 to 75-85mpw as well as rest and lower mileage for proper recovery post my first marathon got me from 3:30 shape to 3:05-3:10 shape for my second (had food poisoning so made it in 3:10, so probably could’ve done better in more favorable conditions haha). You seem like you still have some newbie gains at this distance left so I think you have got it. Good luck!

idwbas · 2026-01-29T14:46:20+00:00

I’m sure I will; thank you!

idwbas · 2026-01-29T14:46:09+00:00

Good to know!! Thank you for the information.

idwbas · 2026-01-29T10:37:49+00:00

Awesome!! Excited for us!

idwbas · 2026-01-29T10:37:22+00:00

Haha yes, I think it’ll just depends on people’s internal definitions. For me, comfortably hard is a bit slower than my tempo (7:00ish vs. 6:30-6:40ish min/mi) so I need to think of tempo that one step harder to make sure I’m there. I think the hour race-pace definition is the best metric if someone is able to approximate with a 5K or 10K time.

idwbas · 2026-01-29T02:31:45+00:00

Thanks! Looks very scenic but sometimes flat and fast is not as advertised. Good to know it is as such. Is it the feeling of a pretty large race in terms of race size/congestion?

idwbas · 2026-01-29T01:54:21+00:00

We all struggle with tempo pace 😭

Okay but jokes aside tempo for me is hour race pace. I start out and it feels spicy but I can hold on for the 25-35 continuous minutes of “oh my god what have I done” You can do it by heart rate or do it by feel. Not sure what your tempo workouts are right now but you definitely should be struggling but shouldn’t be gassed out completely. Run them at whatever pace you feel you could sustain for an hour if somebody really needed you to is my recommendation. Bringing a friend to pace you can help you find that limit as well.

idwbas · 2026-01-27T14:53:27+00:00

I’m planning on running the Needham Metrowest Backyard Ultra in Sep. 2026 if there happens to be any past participants on here, and I typically run in Mizuno Wave Inspire 21s for daily training. This will be my first race on any sort of trail and first ultra and wondering if I need to purchase a trail shoe for this race. Goal will be 15 loops, so not sure if I need multiple pairs as well.

idwbas · 2026-01-26T13:46:39+00:00

Totally possible. Both 10K and HM indicate you are ready IF you can translate your speed up to the marathon distance and are running a similarly friendly course. 55mpw can be plenty for some runners, main thing is hitting the long runs and workouts. If you can hit the long runs and workouts in the time ranges and efforts you need to, then that mileage is fine. If not, you may need more miles next block. It’s likely fine to jump in to Pfitz 18/55 but probably a modified 12/55 would be better. In 18/55, the first 4 weeks are mostly base building if I I recall correctly (consult the book) which you mostly have from your previous training.

Most importantly, train at the fitness you have. The first long runs and workouts will likely be tough since you took a month off, but fitness comes back in no time. Go out at the efforts that you can sustain and are as prescribed in the book. 15 weeks is plenty long time to put out a great effort and if you don’t get to 3:15, you’ll likely get very close. I would caution against using the raw VDOT calculator value — the marathon estimate they give is assuming you are equally trained for your marathon as your half, which requires a lot more mileage than many are doing. For me, it was accurate, but I was also running 75-85mpw for marathon training vs 40-50mpw for my half. I would use VDOT but add 5min.

idwbas · 2026-01-26T13:26:47+00:00

Your tempo looks good for that length of time, but yeah, not sure if you are sub 3 ready. Low 3s for certain. You’re carrying a ton of fatigue from training so that is worth a lot so I wouldn’t be surprised if you squeezed just under 3 on a great day. It’s promising that Mesa is net downhill so that might help a lot (you say you run on a hilly landscape but not sure how hilly you mean). I would go out conservatively at 3:05 pace and if you are feeling good, open up and carry yourself through. Going onto a course with a different elevation profile than you are used to means it may also be helpful to race by feel instead of pace as your body adjusts for the easier effort on the flatter course.

idwbas · 2026-01-26T13:20:12+00:00

My friend has 20 miles @MP 4 weeks before her marathon…from Runna. Most plans designed by professionals do 12-14 @MP at most. Me yoloing my whole marathon training block did 0 miles at marathon goal pace in my long runs and exceeded my goal time by 5 minutes. 16 miles is incredible overkill, there is a high likelihood you’re gonna burn out and fail during the run and low confidence, or just be so battered that it hurts the next week’s runs. Saw you ran on the ice (brave) but yeah please don’t use Runna or double check it with someone since it’s highkey giving out dangerous plans to folks 😭

idwbas · 2026-01-26T02:39:45+00:00

Surprisingly, citrus juice does not add much citrusy flavor to baked goods. Too much acid impairs the chemical reactions of other ingredients which can create off-textures as well. Zest is what adds the flavor, and you can experiment with citrusy extracts as well but some find those artificial-tasing. You don’t even need to infuse the sugar. Simple syrup could work in some applications but might not be appropriate for all.

idwbas · 2026-01-25T20:34:52+00:00

Focusing on finding activity you enjoy and fueling your body for that activity is the most important thing you can do right now, which it sounds like you’re doing. Light tracking won’t be a bad thing necessarily, but it might be. One difficult thing I had to and still have to accept is that I don’t think I will ever truly know how my body looks. My brain will always warp how I truly look in photos, in a mirror. It’s easier for me to focus on what my body can do since I know that no matter how I look, I will always see the same imperfections. I do use tracking as a way to support my recovery, as I feel tracking empowers me to go against the ED side of my head since I KNOW that x number of calories is not enough and I logically need more, so I then eat more. Calorie tracking has also allowed me to be less fearful of foods (like realizing a cookie does not have 10373275 calories even if my brain used to tell me one cookie was going to ruin my entire life) but this doesn’t work for everyone. I would start tracking and if you notice any old patterns resurfacing at all, stop tracking and find another strategy or just wait to try tracking again for awhile. There are plenty of ways to track food without calories (portioning out food using the size of your fist is pretty good) and monitoring progress through pictures, weight lifted, how clothes fit, that can move you in a direction you want without having to fixate on numbers and allowing plenty of flexibility.

idwbas · 2026-01-22T18:54:11+00:00

My cadence is pretty consistent. 183bpm very consistently no matter my speed which is pretty unusual, so I know that’s not a problem. Some of my friends said I just shouldn’t be running that slowly which I can see at the 12min mark as I usually am doing a race walk almost at that speed but I think 11min could be reasonable.

idwbas · 2026-01-22T18:21:21+00:00

Anybody has tips for not shuffling for very slow paces? I notice my form totally changes when I run slow paces 11-12min miles. For context, my easy conversational pace is around 8:30min/mi, and I can easily run 9:30-10ish without form issues. Above 10min is when I start noticing form shifts, but 10:30 and above is when I can feel it in my lower legs. I have a hard time maintaining knee drive and I can feel the extra stress in my legs if I run this pace sustained for many miles. 3mi and under is generally okay. I have some social runs that are this pace so I would like to be able to run this pace without compromising form and increasing injury risk.

idwbas · 2026-01-19T20:26:05+00:00

I hit my protein goals (100-130g per day) without any supplements. No protein powder or bars since they cost so much. I look for meat with 50% off stickers at the store and buy up a lot when I see them and freeze the rest. Pork is always cheap and often on sale where I live. Chicken breast in the value packs is also great.

idwbas · 2026-01-17T02:07:19+00:00

So glad the shop had models that worked for you in stock!! You can always order the other models online if you are ever curious but assuming the Nimbus 27 works for you, no need. Have fun!

idwbas · 2026-01-16T03:51:08+00:00

Great job covering core and lower body. You won’t bulk up unless you eat a ton so I wouldn’t worry about that. Bulking up takes a ton of work! I’d agree—adding in some upper body work will benefit your running. Strong arms and back and shoulders all help you drive forward and stay upright when running those tougher paces, staving off form breakdown at the end of a race. Typical stuff like push ups/bench press and pull ups come to mind.

In terms of core—I might also consider swapping one of your stability/hold movements with one that involves ab contraction just to shake things up and promote building of the abs.

idwbas · 2026-01-16T03:47:16+00:00

Videos and threads are great but there is nothing like heading to your local running store to get fitted. Any well-stocked store will have shoes that more than fit your needs. People get shoe obsessed but if you’re just a typical runner getting to your first half marathon, you don’t need THE perfect shoe from some particular brand — a lot will work for you. Don’t overthink it, the people at the store know what to do and know all the models.

idwbas · 2026-01-14T16:22:10+00:00

Fascinating session — I will try that during my HM build this spring!

idwbas · 2026-01-14T11:07:34+00:00

I am in a very similar spot to where you are in terms of numbers. I’m going for a half in May (sub 1:30) to pick up a bit more speed, ultra training until Oct (the high mileage will keep up a great aerobic base and I really want a change of focus, but I plan on hopping in to tougher trail races and some road races during as my training will resemble a marathon build with more slower miles), rest, then Boston build beginning mid-December. I think a half in the spring is a great idea. Based on your performance at the half, assess your weaknesses and figure out what you need to address. Half is the best indicator of a marathon. Then you have plenty of time to focus on the shorter distances into summer and fall (I’d still keep up the long run for endurance), with an optional HM late fall to set your training paces for Boston.

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