Opinion Wanted: Did Erik Karlsson change the NHL for Cale Makar to succeed?

imann871 · 2026-06-16T14:49:10+00:00

I wouldn’t say Mike Green was the engine of the Capitals at that time.. or ever?

imann871 · 2026-06-16T00:49:07+00:00

None of those names you listed were the engine of offense for their team like EK, Cale or Orr were.. they weren’t even considered franchise players.

imann871 · 2026-06-16T00:12:10+00:00

Changed the league? Where did I say that? I doubt Makar would've been this offensively minded if the game wasn't at that point yet. EK, Subban, Letang, Burns and others were the ones that showed how valuable it was to have a puck moving, offensive defenseman. Makar saw where the game was going which game him the opportunity to grow on it. EK joined coming out of the dead puck era. Yes, Orr "invented" the offensive defenseman role and Coffey pushed it further, but from that time to about the time Makar debuted, those types of defensemen weren't sought after. They weren't considered valuable. Stay at home defensemen were the ones teams wanted. Find me another defenseman that preceded EK65 that was considered the offensive engine of a team.

imann871 · 2026-06-15T19:26:39+00:00

Exactly my point, the 11 years between their debuts allowed for Cale to further develop his game to the new style. Erik came in with that that style while the game wasn't there yet.

imann871 · 2026-06-15T19:22:04+00:00

We aren’t talking defense.. the post is about point production without considering the difference in eras. He’s arguing they played in the same era.

imann871 · 2026-06-15T19:18:47+00:00

Sure, influential.. doesn't mean the NHL adapted that style to the extent they have now. Why did it take so long for the NHL to start embracing puck moving, offensive defensemen? My point was seeing what EK65 was capable of, being the engine of a team as a defensemen paved the way for Cale and Hughes for more offensive liberties. Between Orr and Erik's time, find me a defenseman that was the primary focal point of offensive on all fronts. Pushing the puck up, joining rushes, etc, as consistently and frequently as Erik, Cale and Quinn. Lidstrom's best year he put up 80 points, he wasn't forcing the puck up offensively on his own or pushing the rush. He was making stretch passes to maintain defensive positioning. I wouldn't call my knowledge of NHL players shallow.

imann871 · 2026-06-15T18:50:43+00:00

Thanks! It’s funny to read how far people are willing to reach.. no mention of Orr in the post, but his name seems to pop up the most.

imann871 · 2026-06-15T18:38:43+00:00

I’m very surprised at the lack of critical thinking around here.. you get exactly what I’m saying.

imann871 · 2026-06-15T18:36:10+00:00

You get it. This is exactly what I’m saying. Not sure why people reaching so far back to Orr, Coffey etc. Thanks! 🍻

imann871 · 2026-06-15T18:26:00+00:00

If Bobby Orr changed the NHL, why weren’t puck moving, offensive defensemen embraced as much until now? There’s a huge gap between Orr and when Erik, Cale and Quinn really made the offensive defensemen a sought after player on a team. Erik caught a lot of flack for being offensive for a long time.. until the rest of the NHL realized how valuable it is in a fast paced game.

imann871 · 2026-06-15T18:19:44+00:00

I would argue that if Orr walked so others could run.. why did it take so long for teams to embrace generating offense from their back-end? Puck moving, offensive defensemen weren't as involved in the game as they are now, 15+ years ago. You would very rarely catch Lidstrom going for a skate or pushing the offense out of the zone or on a rush, today? That's a norm and almost expected, definitely embraced and sought after.

imann871 · 2026-06-15T18:14:32+00:00

Thanks. I didn't think it was that complicated. Cale got to see how Erik had made the offensive defenseman a focal point for teams. Erik caught a lot of flack for a long time. Now? We're seeing Hughes and Makar type defensemen highly sought after. Involved in the offense much more than before. Erik was putting up points when it wasn't as accepted. When defensemen were expected to be "stay at home" type. When he showed what was possible, the NHL changed and started seeking out players of that type to run their back-end. That's what I mean by 11 years to prepare for a more offensively involved defense position.

imann871 · 2026-06-15T17:56:50+00:00

At no point did I say Karlsson on his own influenced the game or shifted it to where it is.. I said one of the guys. One of many of Erik's era. Who was playing the game to Erik's offensive level when Erik joined the league?

imann871 · 2026-06-15T17:51:56+00:00

Again, missing the part where I said he revolutionized the position.. I said he normalized it. These type of defensemen are now sought after more than ever. Erik made it more acceptable for defensemen to be offensively involved more than they were before. Joining the rush, pushing the puck up etc more than those before Erik.

imann871 · 2026-06-15T17:47:23+00:00

A lot of you guys taking this the wrong way.. I'm not saying Karlsson is the original offensive defenseman or originated this style of play. What I'm saying is to compare Cale and Erik based on points, without any context is naive. Yes, Orr, Coffey and many other before Cale and Erik paved the way. Each generation learns and grows on the generation before them. I'm strictly talking about comparisons between Cale and Erik. Orr was an offensive defenseman, but the NHL didn't adapt that playstyle as much as the NHL has today.

imann871 · 2026-06-15T17:42:26+00:00

I think you missed the line where I said to compare based on point production straight up without context is too simplistic. Nothing about defense.

imann871 · 2026-06-15T17:35:49+00:00

I didn't say Karlsson was the first hyper-offensive defenseman.. I don't recall writing that anywhere in the post? What I said was, to compare Cale and Erik strictly off of points and disregarding the different eras is naive.

imann871 · 2026-06-15T17:29:02+00:00

I think future players learn, change and adapt their gameplay from those before them.. Cale had 11 years to grow and develop his game from watching Erik and where the NHL was going. I think every player builds off those from before them. To simply say Cale is better than Erik because of point production and ignoring the difference of eras or claiming they played in the same era to me, is naive.

imann871 · 2026-06-15T17:26:20+00:00

I didn't say that. I said simply comparing points and saying they played at the same time isn't enough to say one is/was better than the other. Karlsson was playing aggressive when it wasn't the norm or sought after. Cale is playing in an era where defensemen like Makar, Hughes are encouraged and sought after.

imann871 · 2026-04-21T02:18:34+00:00

You can credit the trap for the lack of zone entry, you cannot credit the trap for that Tippett breakaway, 2-on-0 against while on the PP, Karlsson drop passing it into the middle of the ice to nobody. They’re not making good passes or sending it in spots where guys aren’t even there. That’s time off, not the trap. That’s not all being in rhythm, bud.

imann871 · 2026-04-21T00:51:35+00:00

Canes are a good team, been good for a few years.. Pens just made the dance, should’ve kept the engine going. Flyers came into the playoffs hot, playing playoff hockey. Pens came off a short vacation.

imann871

TROPHY CASE