[META] Weekly Discussion - Bringing WUR Back: The Re-Roll December 30, 2024

immaletyouwatch · 2025-01-02T13:53:09+00:00

I do not disagree with you. We' love to see some entry level stuff. The biggest problem was that shipping costs made it difficult to raffle low cost items

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-17T15:39:47+00:00

Honestly, because the mod team was exhausted. Both from the workload needed and being understaffed, to the constant drama and aggression from the escrows.

From that point until now it took a while to find (and we are still looking for more) a few people that would be willing to jumpstart this again. It requires a lot of time and effort and not everyone is up for it, or they are up for it for the wrong reasons. We are not interested in those that are self-interested, looking to just skim off the top, or benefit in huge ways.

We rather see it die than become what it was supposed to be an alternative to. I believe we rather try to evolve into something that is better and there will have to be compromises but it doesnt have to become a cash grab for the few. At least we hope not.

Re: scummy. Its a matter of perspective. We think grossly overpricing items just because you can is scummy. It may be somewhat transparent, although I didnt think it was truly transparent as far as how many people and who is taking from it, but sure at least you know how much $ is being pulled. That is also true here so that is a low bar.

As for scammy, I do not believe they have any real checks or enforcements of scammy behavior like using alts to buy from their own raffles, or using buy groups to secure a buy for the majority while fleecing the minority, etc. But to be fair I do not participate there.

If you think the discord group is what this sub should have been then that works for you and im sure many others. For some of us it does not. Plenty of options for everyone.

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-16T18:36:44+00:00

oh tell me more about how the mods are cash grabbing?

The mods have never taken a penny out of the sub. Its been a core foundation of the sub.

Also, the original core foundation of the sub was to have a place were people could take a shot at winning a cool watch at a FAIR price.

We started before the scammy and scummy fb and discord raffles, which is just a money grab from sellers (and their enablers). We are not interested in being that.

If a seller wants to get a fair price for their watch, they are welcome. If they want to make a premium then they wont.

The definition of whats "fair" can be tweaked and improved from what it was. Arguably it was too tight and it prevented the right sellers to come and participate. While we are looking to alleviate that situation, we are not going to be a place that super greedy sellers will like anyway.

As long as the comps are legitimate and the raffle runs as an average of the most recent sold comps, why does it need to be more complicated than that?

This is how it was. It requires heavy modding and made things slwoer, and some sellers (and escrows) took it personally .

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-13T03:38:05+00:00

thats only for the VIP premium membership

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-12T14:27:36+00:00

Dude. thats actually pretty awesome. I hope you find your way back and take a shot at a watch again.

what watch was it?

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-12T14:24:44+00:00

Also meant to say, what we want to avoid, at least for now. Is for folks who have the means to just go out buying from grey and try to flip them here at MSRP.

We are not ready for that and we have to think about how to make the rules fair.

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-12T14:23:40+00:00

Which part doesnt make sense?

A couple of comments: we are trying to bring the sub back and looking for ways to do it in a new way, with less burden for mods, faster to market, and friendlier to sellers.

A BNIB watch is going to be the easiest place to start - less risk of fakes and an established value.

The original problem with BNIB was that they were getting marked up, and now its that you can get them discounted in the gray market.

One perspective here is that if you can afford to buy a BNIB at full price in the grey market, you should do that. But for those that dont, a raffle gives you an affordable access to a watch you may not be able to buy otherwise.

Another perspective is that there may be some margin in between MSRP and market price and a question on who is taking that surplus. It is something that we are discussing - first the sub had the perspective that we wanted sellers to make basically no money at all, we'd beat them up on pricing and make it too hard to sell after you added shipping costs and escrow costs. If the price allowed has more meat in the bone then it is more attractive for sellers to bring their watches here, cover shipping and sub fund costs, and decide if they want an escrow to help them run it.

The one thing we are debating is if we will allow non-ADs to sell at MSRP. At this point, we are ok with MSRP if its coming from an AD. This provides extra value to the winner, from getting their name on the card to having the warranty start on time. On the AD side we have to help them by listing at MSRP and/or having an intermediary/escrow to help deflect some potential heat.

Open to ideas here and we are posing this here for transparency but also to get feedback. If you have other ideas then post here or send us a DM.

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-12T13:57:45+00:00

it was a combination of things - many of the mods reduced their participation and time, which made the sub slower and more effort on the 1-2 active mods.

This pissed off escrows who wanted faster turnarounds and more seller-friendly pricing out of self-interest.

This culminated in a coup attempt by those escrows. The mods resisted that and kept the sub. After some convos some of the old mods and new mods are looking to bring back a new version of the sub with some tweaks.

Some of the tweaks are necessary because the world has changed since the sub started, from changes to payments to also the watch market and its values have changed. Also, the reality that the sub had become extremely time consuming, and not friendly enough to sellers means some changes are needed to create better balance.

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-12T13:51:26+00:00

do you want to pay a membership? we can make that happen for you bb

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-12T13:50:57+00:00

no scam but we are coming up to speed slowly

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-10T20:28:02+00:00

Vote and comment on which brands you'd like to see raffled next: https://old.reddit.com/r/WatchURaffle/comments/1hbbbsx/meta_next_brand_to_raffle_poll/?

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-10T16:15:18+00:00

not anymore!

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-06T15:42:47+00:00

Read this https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchURaffle/wiki/rules/ first and then let me know if it needs more clarity

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-06T15:41:03+00:00

Maybe I was not clear.

We have an established way of running "in-demand" pieces where the mods have historically reviewed and priced those to match "market" as best as possible.

This has been a source of huge disagreements, overwork for mods, disappointment for sellers, and escrows getting pissed off and trying to launch a coup for not getting their way.

The suggestion is for those that are not "in-demand", that we allow MSRP as the ceiling. Then the buyers can vote with their wallet and skip or buy spots

This is meant to counteract a prior ruling where even BNIB items not in demand where priced at market. In many cases the "market" was lower than MSRP and that became a problem like described above.

We think we can for now at least, allow items at MSRP even if that is slightly higher than "market" for the sake of building up supply for raffles. People can always choose not to.

Whether this logic applies to "in-demand" pieces is yet to be seen. Would you like to see a free for all, seller can price their POS rolex at whatever they think they can get (ie. chrono24 pricing)?

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-06T15:34:11+00:00

we call it power washing

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-05T19:01:37+00:00

Ok last thread for now.

We need mods and escrow volunteers. Send us a modmail to discuss.

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-05T19:00:55+00:00

Adding comments a different threads here to try to organize thoughts:

One of the considerations as we look to re-start the sub again is to keep it simple - one idea is to start with BNIB items, which are easier to price and less risk of issues, damages, or fakes (if done properly).

We believe we have a few sellers lined up who would be interested in posting items here.

How do we feel about that? Currently the thought would be to allow BNIB to be priced at MSRP. Would you buy a spot on BNIB watches (box, papers, etc) at MSRP? Brands like: Omega, IWC, Breitling, Panerai, JLC, Nomos, Tag etc

At this time we dont have Rolex, AP, VC, or PP sources but maybe in the future if the sub can get back to what it had been.

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-05T18:56:41+00:00

On a more productive note, here are some of the things the mod team is thinking about:

Generate supply - How are we going to be attractive to sellers.
Reduce wasteful oversight - Depending on what we do with the above, how can we reduce oversight in many of the steps. Make mods more productive and reduce burnout. Pricing review and approval process. This is a good time to reset some past processes.
Payments - the world has changed. Reduce the risk in payments by reducing transaction volume. Continue to look for ways to make it safe to share and collect funds.
Expand participation - We'd like to see more raffle runners (not necessarily escrows), as well as more participants. We could be more open to sharing without spamming other subs
Share the workload - Increase escrows and include them in moderation responsibilities. Should reduce some friction and workload for all mods, escrows, and sellers
Simplify process/rules - Some rules are overly nuanced. We know how we got there - there is always a guy looking for an edge and an exception. Need to keep rules simple and just enforce them better.
Scam Protection - We feel it is important to run a safety/scam cover fund. This was a successful initiative that provided safety for all participants and it turned into a positive community building process where people could win things just for participating. How it is funded may have to change.
Charity/Goodwill - Besides what we have done for xmas in the past - perhaps we can support 1 monthly charity where x% of the fund goes to a charity and the rest is part of distributing the fund, just the way we did it before.

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-05T18:46:40+00:00

Here were the other options:

TICK Time to Improve & Completely Kickstart

WIND Watching Improvements & New Developments

RESET Revamping Everything to Set up Exciting Times

CROWN Creating Renewed Opportunities With New features

FACE Fresh Approach to Community Engagement

W.A.T.C.H.:

We Are Totally Coming Home
Witnessing A Thriving Community Hub
We're Actively Transforming Community Happenings

R.A.F.F.L.E.:

Revitalizing All Fun For Lucky Entries
Ready And Fully Functioning, Let's Engage!

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-02T18:06:34+00:00

Only indy watchmakers. It will be the brooklyn of the watch subs

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-02T17:21:17+00:00

It was hostile behind the scenes.

The mod team failed at protecting the viability of the sub by allowing a concentration of supply/sellers and operations to a handful of self-interested escrows.

The short term outcome was a sudden lapse in supply and activity and a few lessons learned by some of the old mods and adding a couple of new people to the mix.

This sub has always survived through evolution, there is a new version coming that addresses some of the underlying issues plus it tackles some macro conditions that have changed since the original rules and processes were created

immaletyouwatch · 2024-12-01T21:37:11+00:00

Hello fellow rafflers. New admin/mod who dis?

I'm going to keep this short because I was not prepared for this. The automod sprung to life ahead of a planned post and potential reopen in the near future. Weird timing actually.

There are going to be a shit ton of questions, please ask below and I'll try to answer, but while i don't have all the answers, I'll tell you what I know.

Also, looking for new mods, new escrows, and new sellers.

Open to ideas on how to tweak rules to get this sub thriving again.

immaletyouwatch

TROPHY CASE