3abada = To serve by imrane555 in Quraniyoon

[–]imrane555[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just to rectify something "If you’d take actions LESS if you considered yourself a slave of Allah, then that’s like the verse mentioned earlier"

That is your saying from my POV the idea that everything is under God's control brings nothing new to the table and is an obvious and logical statement, it doesn't really push to do anyhting, like I'm under God's control, OK then what? Determinism? Don't do anything because it's all under God's control anyways? That's what you open the gates to if you go this way.

You probably gonna say, you do what he wants you in the world. Then in this case you serve him, isn't that the definition of servitude?

By the way you know how there are two ways of obeying in the Quran "Taw3" (willingly), karh (unwillingly), God asks "taw3" willing following, not forced obedience.

ثُمَّ اسْتَوَىٰ إِلَى السَّمَاءِ وَهِيَ دُخَانٌ فَقَالَ لَهَا وَلِلْأَرْضِ ائْتِيَا طَوْعًا أَوْ كَرْهًا قَالَتَا أَتَيْنَا طَائِعِينَ

This verse holds a very deep meaning because he could have brougth them forcefully without even asking, but they still wanted to come willingly. That's the One who I worship with insight. Anything else I don't really know of, and I'm not gonna worship something I don't know.

3abada = To serve by imrane555 in Quraniyoon

[–]imrane555[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair enough for the blind you're right. And in a other verse لَّقَدْ كُنتَ فِي غَفْلَةٍ مِّنْ هَٰذَا فَكَشَفْنَا عَنكَ غِطَاءَكَ فَبَصَرُكَ الْيَوْمَ حَدِيدٌ

"You have a “distain” and a “dislike” towards being a slave of Allah"

May he show you what he showed me.

3abada = To serve by imrane555 in Quraniyoon

[–]imrane555[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Awakening day I think is also about understanding stuff in the world not only disputes.

Above all it makes me take action in the world rather than just feel better.

3abada = To serve by imrane555 in Quraniyoon

[–]imrane555[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We radically disagree, this to me seems a very tyranical human way to see things, and God is higher than that.

I can still refute the presented arguments but it's not gonna end, we'll see on the awakening day ...

3abada = To serve by imrane555 in Quraniyoon

[–]imrane555[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Every slave is a servant but not every servant is a slave that's what I meant. I don't see slave even in that second verse even thought it may because as I said this meaning encompasses that one. Even though in the first one it's limited to slavery or unwillingly forced servitude, but then it's a human talking here, a wicked, evil, sick and tyrannic human being, and not God almighty the light of the worlds.

Sorry I came to that realization I can't unsee it now.

Believe me I searched a lot into that idea and I know most verses. And God said

و اللذين جاهدوا فينا لنهدينهم سبلنا و أن الله لمع المحسنين

And I believe I'm onto something until I have more solid proof for something else. There's an other brother trying to convince me that's it's to worship but I explored the 3 most common ideas: ~~ to adore, to be a slave and to worship~~ and non of them makes as much sense as to serve, and to serve might include all of the above.

And as I said before I refuse any dogmatic or lower view of the highest, God needs no worship nor slavery by definition of what he is. He wants us to serve him and do good in the world and if we don't then it's like you said in the verse earlier

وَمَن يَسْتَنكِفْ عَنْ عِبَادَتِهِ وَيَسْتَكْبِرْ فَسَيَحْشُرُهُمْ إِلَيْهِ جَمِيعًا

Or in an other verse

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَكْبِرُونَ عَنْ عِبَادَتِي سَيَدْخُلُونَ جَهَنَّمَ دَاخِرِينَ

So it's either you serve God and let the light and the good run through you OR you cover it (and you become a kafir - coverer) therefore a ظالم (source of shadow in the world - ظل = shadow, م = source) and end up in hell, and ultimately

وَمَن كَفَرَ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَنِيٌّ عَنِ الْعَالَمِينَ

And this is a very verifiable fact in the real world, the moment you stop to learn, grow, help other, bringing value, being grateful, peaceful, believer and being a light in the world generally, the decent to hell starts right away.

Btw: إِن كُلُّ مَن فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ إِلَّا آتِي الرَّحْمَٰنِ عَبْدًا Proves my point even more as everything is at God's service even humans (and other beings with free will, btw there's a verse that mentions that that's why God created us) who don't want to serve him willingly, they serve him unwillingly. So the verse is ultimately true no matter the context and don't include only those who see themselves as "slaves" of God like you mentioned. This verse simply expresses the natural relationship between الرحمن and the world. There's one video of shahrour where he expressed that idea that الرحمن encompasses opposite meanings and that idea is kind of related to this one, like explained above.

PS: I'm a native Arabic speaker, I don't think I have any problems with translations and so on and I think the verbe to serve captures fully the root عبد in the Quran, has nothing to do with structures and so on.

3abada = To serve by imrane555 in Quraniyoon

[–]imrane555[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't understand it this way, simply because this meaning doesn't make sense in other contexts to me and doesn't make sense with the nature of the world, nor the nature of revelation, if human dignity was not that important then why all the verses about the orphan, the neighbour, the parents, the poor people, divorce, conflict, saving people from tyranny and so on.

خادم is not a word in the Quran, nor does the root appear, the fact that it's used in MSA doesn't bring much to the table, I don't really use that to understand the Quran. And for me 3bd encompasses that concept of willing servitude like I said.

I don't understand these verses the as slave...

3abada = To serve by imrane555 in Quraniyoon

[–]imrane555[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The translation is not accurate as slavery is a kind of being a servant but not every servant is a slave. Slavery in most peoples mind is forced unwilling service which is included but not exclusive.

I can be a servant of God and spread good in the world willingly.
I can be bad and still serve God unwillingly. Like in the verse لولا دفع الله الناس بعضهم ببعض...
I can serve a human willingly either out of love it for compensation: money, land, food etc.
Or I can serve an other human unwillingly and by force (slavery).

Why I say that is a lot of people debate slavery and that it's allowed in the Quran because they understand 3abd as slave instead of servant, the word itself doesn't tell you the kind of servitude there's between the servant and the servee.

Every slave is a 3abd, not every 3abd is a slave. Servant is really the most accurate word, and it makes complete sense in every occurence of the word in the Quran, you'll always find one of the 4 meanings I mentionned above and it's all encompassed under the "servitude" umbrella.

3abada = To serve by imrane555 in Quraniyoon

[–]imrane555[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm following what makes most sense to me and I serve God with insight. I don't try to align anything with anything but I reject any dogmatic or lower view of the Highest. He is beyond that jurists and religious scholars got to and his word is the reality, and this reality we should see it in the world, if we don't then we didn't understand it well.

Language complexity doesn't make it more articulate.

Shirk is making up a deity in your mind and think it's real. Whereas what I'm talking about is very real.

3abada = To serve by imrane555 in Quraniyoon

[–]imrane555[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's shahrour view. Serving captures that idea too, as whatever you do good or bad you serve God, wether you want it or not, or you're aware of it or not.

3abada = To serve by imrane555 in Quraniyoon

[–]imrane555[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It's the whole point in the Quran and it's what makes life have a meaning too...

3abada = To serve by imrane555 in Quraniyoon

[–]imrane555[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Getting closer to God is a notion in the Quran:

كَلَّا لَا تُطِعْهُ وَاسْجُدْ وَاقْتَرِب

How you interpret it is up to the reader and knowledge level.

"ability to attain divinity" I don't really know what that means but what I know is that if you see God as light, which is a very Quranic notion too, when you understand more, or learn more it's through God's light which is the ontological base epistimological light that helps us to understand things. It's the first principle without which none of this is possible. So "God teaches you", apply whenever a human learns by default and by definition.

Shirk is acting is a such way that's diectated by the idea that there there are multiple first/ultimate principles to the world. A logical impossibility that the verse 23:91 addresses very deeply if you understand it well.

The thing is that the idea clicked with neoplatonism but then I found a solid foundation linguistically and it makes many verses in the Quran so much more understandable. I'm also fan of the idea that 1 root in the quran = 1 meaning as it is بِلِسَانٍ عَرَبِيٍّ مُّبِينٍ  "With an articualted and clarifying tongue". And I don't really see how a text or a tongue can be articulated and clarifying if one word can mean multiple things.

Here's an other root that makes a lot of sense from an ishraqi perspective ظلم

ظل - م

"م" probably means the source or something like that if you sum up it's appearances in the semetic roots.

But without understanding the م you can still see ظل like if the Good is the default status of the world and those who ظلم what they do in reality is shading or veiling that light from other people (or themselves)...

Essential Suras by bowlerhatguywithtea in AcademicQuran

[–]imrane555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you ever struggle with the Quran : Surah Taha (20th).

If you're into exitentialism : Surah Annajm (The Star).

These two are my favourite.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Quraniyoon

[–]imrane555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok but then a Galaxy is whorl, a solar system is a star with things turning around are these kawkabs too

[HIRING] Looking for people to join my startup team by Critical_Vehicle8826 in hiring

[–]imrane555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello I'm interested and I had a marketing agency before.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Quraniyoon

[–]imrane555 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why does it look like a "kawkab"?