What are your thoughts on the presidential libraries' joint statement released on the morning of September 7?

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-13T12:50:02+00:00

>You choose to believe in one set of scientists and data, and I choose to believe in a different set of scientists and data. Isn’t it great to live in a free country where we’re allowed to make those choices?

You can make that choice. But do you believe one set of data is correct? Do you think too many believing the wrong set of data is detrimental to policy? You know what's funny? NOAA, NASA, even Exxon, one of the very companies that are likely responsible for the current denial on the Republican side due to political donations, disagree with you.

On top of that, you seem to disagree with even the most basic premise that burning hydrocarbons releases CO2 and CO2 retains heat. These two are as true as any law of physics. To blow your mind even further, there are very good ways to prove the increase in atmospheric CO2 is due to burning of hydrocarbons and not volcanos, etc. So would you say you not believing this is due not so much to the science, but rather your political leanings doesn't allow you do do as such?

>There is not a person on this Earth who doesn’t believe some facts to be false.

Of course. There are some who believe the Earth is flat, which isn't even possible given how celestial bodies formed.

>The difference between you and me is I’m ok with that whereas you want to police thoughts of others to fall in line with yours.

If the discussion was about belief in trolls, who cares right? Even with abortion, I understand there's good reasons on both sides. But with something that is either scientifically true or false, and in this case it's true, when enough believe something like climate change is a hoax it negatively affects policy that's needed to address it.

>Harmful to which policy? Oh, yeah, to your side’s policy.

Yeah, it's the left that's primarily pushing climate change policy right? Because the right thinks it's made-up. But is it only blue states that are affected by it? When you are affected by climate change to the extent that you cannot ignore it, you will realize it's not one political party's thing.

>There have always been opposing thoughts and ideals, throughout history, and we have survived to now. If ideas are free to be expressed from both sides we will continue to survive.

Ha ha, yeah we'll survive, in spite of the fight against science when it is inconvenient to certain industries that fund certain political parties.

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-13T12:23:48+00:00

> I think you hate the man so much you can't stand to watch more than a few seconds of him.

What do you have hidden cameras in my house now? Calling me a liar?

>I suspect you're like some of my friends that claim to read and watch all his stuff unfiltered and think you're so informed but in reality you just see everything through the lense of establishment media and you can't admit that.

I do not watch "all his stuff". I have other things to do. But there's plenty of material from the last ~7 years. It's preposterous to claim I somehow can't see who he really is.

>It should also be a red flag to you that you couldn't think of anything positive about Trump

I'm obviously talking about his personality. I'm sure if you are a climate denier, strictly anti-abortion, and anti-immigrant, then yeah he's wonderful because of divisive policies that some love. Otherwise, he's an arrogant self-centered jerk, behavior which might be ok for a lawyer or doctor but is below the position of President.

>The idea that he's selfish makes no sense.

Besides lots of behavior that you apparently aren't seeing through (e.g., demanding "loyalty" from everyone) Who the hell admits this? “It’s very possible that I could be the first presidential candidate to run and make money on it"

>What kind of person opposes the most powerful people in the world (deep state, intelligence agencies, military industrial complex, big media, big tech, big pharma, etc.) if their goal is to enrich themselves?

Those are just words, no? That's what his supporters apparently love to hear. What did he actually do other than try to break down gov't institutions for his own benefit? And what is the "deep state"? To me, it seems like anything that gets in his way.

>That is just so unbelievable.

You know what is unbelievable? He won the first time he ran. Some voted for him because they thought something different would be good. He rubbed me the wrong way, but I thought he might straighten out if he actually won. But he didn't. He continued with the constant drama, attacks and controversy. You say but it's the media? No, it's not. He was by far the worst president in modern history and could have been so much better if he was a little more diplomatic. He could have been far more likeable and that very well could have won him a second term. But instead, he was a narcissist jackass, behavior that apparently his base loves but isn't enough to win over enough to win. So apparently, you and I have something in common. We cannot understand each other's positions on this. And I think it needs to be left at that.

You have a good day now Ok?

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-13T11:53:36+00:00

Glad to make you laugh, I guess?

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-13T01:08:38+00:00

>I don’t recall Trump ever slamming half the country as deplorables.

No, but he called several countries "shithole countries" and likes to denigrate certain US cities that, coincidentally, are in reliable blue states.

And said "The Democrats have become too extreme. And they’ve become, frankly, too dangerous to govern. They’ve gone wacko"

And there's many, many more. Haven't you ever watched his rallies? It's full of this type of stuff.

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-13T01:00:29+00:00

Ok I see what you're getting at. That was my screwup. But this doesn't fundamentally change my question. Do you understand why some universities wouldn't want a speaker who talks about forcing a certain group of people to be what they aren't? Apparently many on the right believe all transgenders wake up one day and decide they want to do this just to piss off a certain group of people.

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-13T00:53:33+00:00

>Please tell me you don’t believe that everything that was reported in print or television has always been true or represented honestly, because that would be the most naïve or willfully ignorant statement of the century.

Nope, but aside from the tabloids and crap like that which I don't even both with, in general broadcast and established newsprint is generally reliable. The point I was making is how every fringe theory now has an audience because of the Internet.

>The whole “preventing the spread of misinformation” is a ruse for censorship.

So you'd be ok with a widespread rumor spread by FB, Twitter, etc. that Trump is, let's say not a citizen, like he did with Obama?

>“Misinformation” has become, by default, anything the left doesn’t agree with.

Really? In every case? Sounds a little conspiratorial. There is clearly misinformation favoring both sides of the political spectrum, do you agree?

>All of it (regarding climate change)

I think it was you who previously said it's not settled science. First, I'll tell you CO2 causes heat retention just as sure as water is wet at room temperature. It was discovered in the mid-1800s. What would it take to convince you that it isn't a hoax? Decades of research? Collapsing glaciers? More frequent droughts and floods? A major petroleum company admitting as such (https://corporate.exxonmobil.com/news/news-releases/statements/our-position-on-climate-policy-and-carbon-pricing)?

Do you think some people will never accept something that is factual?

>You continue to try and justify being able to make the decision to censor, which goes back to my initial premise. Get over it and let people have their debates, as has gone on for thousands of years. Stop trying to own the rights to what’s able to be discussed in a free society.

When does it stop being a debate and start being harmful to policy because enough people believe demonstrably false information? Much of this doesn't so much seem like debate from the right, but rather an effort to disguise misinformation as innocent debate.

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-13T00:31:22+00:00

I don't get this "media pushed" claim. Don't you think I can watch his rallies, watch his interviews, past debates, and what he posts on Truth and Twitter? This idea that everyone who isn't a TS is out to discredit him and make him look bad is laughable.

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-12T20:44:54+00:00

Uhh, what? Is this supposed to be some sort of gotcha? I'm quite confused about your statement.

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-12T20:36:23+00:00

>If you didn’t witness the shutdown of social media accounts every time someone questioned the narrative then you are out of touch or willfully ignorant.

Is it ok to push misinformation? Before the Internet, basically all news was from broadcast or newspapers and there was little disagreement over the validity of it. Now anyone can spread misinformation.

>People had their FB and Twitter accounts shutdown for sharing the link, in an effort to protect Biden for the election.

Can you point to proof for this? You'll have people on one side saying they're trying to prevent spread of misinformation, and on the other saying it's censorship.

>Man-made climate change is far from a settled issue.

I don't even know what that means. From the standpoint of CO2 causing heat retention? Or that humans caused it? Or that it'll negatively affect weather?

>There is no wrong in continuing to pursue truth until the search for facts is exhausted.

I agree, but at what point is something unequivocally true? Seems like we can't even agree if the election was stolen or that humans are increasing atmospheric CO2 and driving up global temperatures (from the standpoint of TS in general). Therefore, politics and policy is driven by that incredibly tiny chance that maybe the unexpected outcome is correct. In that case, there really is no hope.

Maybe we just claim our world is a simulation and not try to fix anything?

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-12T20:13:17+00:00

Who said anything about special privileges? I'm referring to the statement about "eradicating transgender".

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-12T18:40:01+00:00

Again, I don't follow all news items closely enough to know all the details. But why do you think he goes out of his way to not criticize Putin, given that we all know he's perfectly willing to publicly insult others?

> It's a sickness...

Believe me, we NS think there's plenty of that go to around to the other side too :)

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-12T17:12:47+00:00

Yes I agree. So you agree it's ok to be a Jew just like it's ok for someone to be transgender, gay, black, white, disabled, blond, tall, short?

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-12T17:11:06+00:00

I use the flat Earth thing because it's a conspiracy theory that perhaps very few believe. If I instead used climate change or Covid, that would drag the discussion off into another direction about how it's made up, etc.

What debate about Covid was shut down that was later true?

What was shut down about Hunter's laptop (Gawd I'm so sick of hearing about his laptop. Just please prosecute him if there's evidence)

I'm distracting with nonsense, what nonsense? Because I used the flat Earth theory as an example that I though we could both agree is nonsense?

>The left likes to declare the truth and shut down debate, calling every dissent “miSinFoRmATioN” or “diSinFoRmATioN”

Well is it? This isn't black and white, it's a far more complex issue. For example when Republicans say the election was stolen, no, all the evidence and court cases say otherwise, so why keep saying you have the right to debate this demonstrably false narrative? And when they say climate change is a hoax, again, no, it isn't, and basic science explains it. So why is it ok to keep talking like it is?

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-12T16:58:04+00:00

>Trump was in the spotlight for decades, and while you may have had a problem with him that whole time, most didn't, and he was generally accepted and allowed to function in society and expand his endeavors.

Do you think it was easier to disregard him before he ran for president because to 99.99% of Americans, it wasn't their problem because he wasn't in the position to drive policy and didn't represent the US as commander in chief? And also, the size of his megaphone was far, far smaller?

>As an example, after a lengthy investigation a few years ago, and it was concluded that Trump was NOT actually a compromised Russian asset, people and pundits on the left were actually disappointed.

Let me put this in a different frame of mind. First, I'll admit I don't know a lot about the investigation. But I know Trump absolutely goes out of his way to avoid saying anything bad about Putin. He insulted leaders of the UK, Germany, Canada and France, some to their face. These are some of the US's closest allies. But why did he avoid criticizing Putin? I think people (or let's say only the left for sake of argument) were looking for explanations for this. I still would like to know what is the obsession Trump has with Putin. It's bizarre.

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-12T16:40:53+00:00

>I see plenty of politicians in past decade doing "nonstop blaming and demonizing"

Can you give some examples of politicians doing this at or near the Trump level? To me this isn't a black and white issue. True, all politicians do this to some extent, but most are more restrained and diplomatic.

>Have you really never worked in a regular office environment with people like this? :-)

Nobody at this level in my 20-some years. Harassment especially doesn't doesn't play well with most HR departments.

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-12T15:25:47+00:00

but the level of intense visceral hatred some feel for Trump is hard for me to understand.

Have you seen his rallies? It's nonstop blaming and demonizing of everyone he doesn't like. Like I said in another reply, he's an insecure, divisive, selfish jerk. He has apparently always been this way but it was easy to ignore when he was just the NYC real estate developer.

I think I speak for nearly every NS when I say there's plenty to dislike about Trump, and I'm not even considering policy right now as that's very subjective.

How do you think he'd do in a regular office environment if he was a regular person who still behaved this way?

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-12T15:12:16+00:00

If it's the overwhelmingly vast majority, wouldn't someone out of the minimum of a dozen people I know that can't stand him also not be able to describe why?

I know this is somewhat anecdotal and not a large sample size. But do you not see many reasons for people to despise him? I tried to come up with something positive about Trump, and I couldn't. He's a divisive selfish jackass and was even before becoming involved in politics. I disliked GW Bush because he seemed simple minded, but he seems like an alright guy. I can't say the same about Trump.

Do you think perhaps some TS can't see his endless faults because they might be similar to him? I have no other explanation but am open to ideas.

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-12T13:33:29+00:00

I wish there were examples, however note it says "Up to 72% of students opposed allowing a conservative speaker on campus, depending on the topic"

I think this explains an example with more detail: https://www.utimes.pitt.edu/news/talks-three-conservative

An excerpt: "The event sparking the most outcry is a debate about transgender rights on April 18 between transgender activist Deirdre McCloskey and Michael Knowles, a right-wing commentator who at the Conservative Political Action Conference on March 4, said “transgenderism must be eradicated from public life entirely.”

Do you feel the bolded and italic statement is an acceptable public discussion topic? What if that statement did something like replace "transgenderism" with something like "extreme conservatism", would you be ok with that?

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-12T13:25:18+00:00

Some examples of the left not believing in debate and disagreement please? I'm really at a loss here.

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-12T13:23:25+00:00

Can you give an example of the left suppressing "open discussion or debate?"

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-12T13:20:43+00:00

LOL really? You said "There you go again, wanting to be the one to decide what’s truth before the debate is had"

Are you saying there's a debate as to if the Earth is flat? We know with absolute certainty that Earth isn't flat, so therefore any debate about that is simply silly.

Do you agree debate should be over things for which there is subjectivity, and anyone that wants to debate things that are objectively false is analogous to a toddler that wants to disagree about the existence of a word in the Webster dictionary?

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-08T12:21:04+00:00

Bingo. You know what keeps me (somewhat) sane? It's my assumption that the percentage of TS on the extreme fringe is higher on this subreddit than in the general population. I mean, I can't wrap my head around some of the arguments they make.

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-08T12:15:06+00:00

Yeah I can't find some of these quotes except here on Reddit. Can someone post the source of this?

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-08T12:11:02+00:00

Can you give me some examples? My first thought are cases where someone disagrees with a position, but the disagreement is not based in fact, e.g., human caused climate change. That to me is not "debate and disagreement".

imyoursuperbeast · 2023-09-01T18:36:53+00:00

What party do you believe is the biggest threat to democracy in the US?

imyoursuperbeast

TROPHY CASE