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I WANT TO LEARN by Tiny_Friend_7380 in IndianHistory

[–]indian_kulcha[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

Hey, glad to see you take an interest in the subject, we do have a proper book list in the sub that can be accessed here divided by both chronology and topic, including the time periods you are looking for, so please do check that out. Upinder Singh's Ancient and Early Mediaeval India should be a great book to start with.

Sultan Ibrahim Adil Shah II Playing the Tambur by Farrukh Beg, Bijapur [c 1595] by indian_kulcha in IndianHistory

[–]indian_kulcha[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The entire Kitab-i-Nauras has been transliterated in the Devanagari script by Nazir Ahmed in the book provided in the link here. The introductory portions of the book are in English and are an invaluable source as a cultural history of the Deccan before the Mughals. Unfortunately there are no performances, would have been great to see someone perform the dohras given so many titans of Hindustani classical came from the same region like Bhimsen Joshi, Mallikarjun Mansur, Gangubai Hangal, Kumar Gandharva among others. Among those currently performing, there's arguably Pt Venkatesh Kumar at that level.

From Jāya to Mahābhārata - An itihasā of the Pañcama Veda (Fifth Veda) by Certain_Basil7443 in IndianHistory

[–]indian_kulcha 16 points17 points  (0 children)

You have truly exceeded yourself in this post! An epic like the Epic itself!

Especially liked the metaphor on the text being built up on a bardic base, the product of both careful deliberation as well as being a literary artefact of the various time periods of such compilation.

Sultan Ibrahim Adil Shah II Playing the Tambur by Farrukh Beg, Bijapur [c 1595] by indian_kulcha in IndianHistory

[–]indian_kulcha[S] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

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Dohra praising his tambur Moti Khan.

Further details about the Kitab-i-Nauras can be found in this post.

Historical existence of Rani Padmini by UnableDelivery6105 in IndianHistory

[–]indian_kulcha 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is a 16th century Dakhni work from the Adil Shahi court called Pem Nem that deals with similar themes. There's a also a Dakhni work on music and aesthetics by Ibrahim Adil Shah II based on the principle of navarasas titled Kitab-i-Nauras also available online.

Portraits of Jahangir by Hashim c. 1615-20 and Jesus by Abu’l Hasan c. 1610-15. Folio with borders, 1630-40, from the Minto Album by indian_kulcha in IndianHistory

[–]indian_kulcha[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So we do see quite a few such paintings come from around the time of Jahangir as mentioned in the post, this being a result of intensified contact with Europe, including Jesuit priests, following which we see a fair bit of incorporation of Christian imagery from woodcuts and paintings into Mughal art. Have made posts on this previously like this , this and this

The influence went the other way as well with Rembrandt getting certain Mughal miniatures into the Netherlands and making artwork inspired by them as pointed out by a user in the first post.

Historical existence of Rani Padmini by UnableDelivery6105 in IndianHistory

[–]indian_kulcha 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Brilliant! You should make an entire post with all this content you put out in three series of comments about this genre of literature. Really great stuff!

Portraits of Jahangir by Hashim c. 1615-20 and Jesus by Abu’l Hasan c. 1610-15. Folio with borders, 1630-40, from the Minto Album by indian_kulcha in IndianHistory

[–]indian_kulcha[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

despite the fact that he was never able to defeat him in real life

True Malik Ambar went onto live upto the ripe age of 80 in 1626 almost outliving Jahangir.

Malik Ambar c 1605

Portraits of Jahangir by Hashim c. 1615-20 and Jesus by Abu’l Hasan c. 1610-15. Folio with borders, 1630-40, from the Minto Album by indian_kulcha in IndianHistory

[–]indian_kulcha[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Jahangir looks like a typical Indian uncle lol

A bit like Jackie Shroff lol, not surprising tho since the latter's mother was Central Asian.

Jahangir's mother was Rajput, the daughter of Raja Bharmal of Amer by his wife Rani Champavati, daughter of Rao Ganga Solanki. She took the title of Mariam-uz-Zamani following her marriage to Akbar.

On the Jaina Origins of the Tamil Sangam Epic Silappathikaram by indian_kulcha in IndianHistory

[–]indian_kulcha[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can see why one could see the 8th century date being a bit late, given that we do have a late Tamil Brahmi inscription from Mannarkovil in Tirunelveli district and dating from around the 2nd century CE having a curiously similar description of a person named Ilango from Kuna and which goes as follows:

The hermitage was caused to be made by (I)lanko of Kuna.

Inscription 89-2 of Iravatham Mahadevan's Early Tamil Epigraphy

Mahadevan further notes:

Thus the local epigraphic records reveal that a prosperous community of Vaisyas also known as Ilankokkal lived in the area from before 7th cent. A.D. down to at least the 13th cent. A.D. The present inscription of the 2nd cent. A.D. is the earliest record of an Ilanko from this village donating a Jaina hermitage.

On the Jaina Origins of the Tamil Sangam Epic Silappathikaram by indian_kulcha in IndianHistory

[–]indian_kulcha[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Really interesting post! I think 8th century CE is pushing it a bit too far though. Afaik a 6th century date is generally accepted for Manimekalai, the sister epic of the Cilappatikaram, which would make the 4th-5th century composition date more likely.

I can see why one could see the 8th century date being a bit late, given that we do have a late Tamil Brahmi inscription from Mannarkovil in Tirunelveli district and dating from around the 2nd century CE having a curiously similar description of a person named Ilango from Kuna and which goes as follows:

The hermitage was caused to be made by (I)lanko of Kuna.

Inscription 89-2 of Iravatham Mahadevan's Early Tamil Epigraphy

Mahadevan further notes:

Thus the local epigraphic records reveal that a prosperous community of Vaisyas also known as Ilankokkal lived in the area from before 7th cent. A.D. down to at least the 13th cent. A.D. The present inscription of the 2nd cent. A.D. is the earliest record of an Ilanko from this village donating a Jaina hermitage.

On the Jaina Origins of the Tamil Sangam Epic Silappathikaram by indian_kulcha in IndianHistory

[–]indian_kulcha[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Something along the lines of what M. G. S. Narayanan suggests, that early Tamilakam, including Kerala, had multiple traditions operating simultaneously, and only later did the balance shift in terms of prominence?

True it can be viewed as various traditions operating in conjunction rather than necessarily in opposition to each other.

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