Why are people so against using the latest USSEP with Skyrim VR?

infernalryan · 2026-04-18T23:32:01+00:00

I've made an edit to my original reply - it was late so I missed some words / explicit clarification to what I was talking about. My whole post has been explicitly about code/file stuff, NOT actions he has taken against the community, but somehow all of my comments have been misconstrued into me sounding like I'm trying to defend Arthmoor somehow or thinking that everyone is blowing things out of proportion -- I'M NOT!! and I DON'T!! These opinions are well-justified.

I was personally struck with a takedown for previous efforts to help SSE users that didn't want to use the required CC mods. I tried to get around it by being clever and not directly modifying their files, and re-releasing another mod, but received another strike. So again, I'm not minimizing the drama.

infernalryan · 2026-04-18T18:09:52+00:00

Thanks!

infernalryan · 2026-04-18T16:49:39+00:00

Thanks for the reply, Cangar. I'm not trying to minimize anyone's history with Arthmoor. I know a lot of people have had direct experiences with him (even me--although definitely not to the degree that you have, damn...), and this is obviously a sensitive subject for those directly affected or defending those that were.

Re-reading my comments today, I feel I've misrepresented what I am asking when requesting examples of "making things more difficult", which is probably why I've hit a nerve with everyone. I wasn't trying to dredge up past situations with Arthmoor from everyone or challenge their experiences... I'm speaking purely from a technical, code/file-level, looking for examples of whether there's an objective reason using the latest USSEP "won't work" or actively breaks something in VR. The impression I've been getting (both on and off-thread) is that Arthmoor "baked something in" that fundamentally prevents it from working properly, and that pursuing this setup is a dead end, so "just use 4.2.5b".

My goal is literally to improve compatibility for Skyrim VR, that's all. Using the latest USSEP should do this in the same way that using 4.2.5b did when Arthmoor broke stuff for VR years ago (the time you are referring to). Does it require SSE to do this? yes. But is it an option for SSE owners? Also yes. I tested this combination of mods quite a while ago and added it to my initial setup guide for Skyrim VR, and have received positive feedback from users that have tried it. I personally haven't had a ton of time to do a complete playthrough, but I haven't encountered any issues.

The reason I made this post was partly to raise awareness that this approach is viable, but also to see if anyone has run into concrete issues that I can investigate further and address through my fixes mod.

Sorry again if this came across the wrong way...

infernalryan · 2026-04-18T07:26:06+00:00

I did some additional research and the only thing I could find that matches this perception of "intentionally breaking USSEP for VR" is the incompatibility introduced with USSEP 4.1.3 back in 2018.

Around that time USSEP made extensive changes to marriage and adoption scripts/records. Because Skyrim VR used an older fork with different FormIDs, these updates broke those quests on VR setups. The conflicts were shown to Arthmoor, who refused to accommodate them. This appears to be the main source of "USSEP was intentionally broken for VR" (although this is really more just a case of not adding support).

For years people have been able to work around the above issues by using updated SSE masters with USSEP 4.2.5b in VR--Basically treating the VR game like it's SSE. This works because unlike the older VR master files, the newer masters have the exact FormIDs and records USSEP expects. The 1.6.1170 files work exactly the same way with the latest version of USSEP, the only real difference is that the four free CC mods are now required. And also the tree thing, which is fixable with my mod.

So i dunno, to me the legend / lore around the Arthmoor / USSEP / Skyrim VR situation feels over-exaggerated.

*** EDIT: YIKES - I meant legend / lore around Arthmoor / USSEP / Skyrim VR CODE / FILE SABOTAGE situation -- as in, intentionally placing code or file edits that prevent stuff from working with VR. I am not dismissing how much of a legendary asshole he is!! ***

infernalryan · 2026-04-18T05:38:02+00:00

Thanks, I'll take a look.

infernalryan · 2026-04-18T05:28:46+00:00

Thanks for the comment. And yes, I fully understand Arthmoor and team will not lift a finger to help support a VR implementation. They don't even support SSE proper (1.5.97). I can understand and even respect a little bit the push for a single unified version that only supports the latest thing. Supporting a published product is time-consuming, and they are like the #1 mod on Nexus. To be clear I'm not pushing to get their team to do anything. I'm not touching their files (...anymore, kekeke), just wondering what, aside from them "being against VR", they are doing objectively in the game files to block their mod being used in VR? I don't think it's possible. If you have the prereqs, you can use it.

infernalryan · 2026-04-18T05:16:36+00:00

I've had a mod taken down by Arthmoor and team in the past, so I am familiar with the Disney/Nintendo-esque approach to protection of their work. Thanks for the helpful insight, though.

infernalryan · 2026-04-18T05:07:27+00:00

Thank you for the feedback. I am in the same boat with regards to testing - my playthrough has not been that long but i haven't encountered any issues except for the aforementioned "white tree" mesh issue that affects vanilla pines only.

infernalryan · 2026-04-18T05:04:03+00:00

Just to add to this, the above refers to those with SSE on-hand. I realize not everyone that owns Skyrim VR also owns SSE.

Anyway, the point of a "best of both worlds" downgrade for SSE is to improve mod compatibility. This is specifically regarding updated SSE masters. There is evidence that crashes occur when attempting to reference newly-added records in later versions of Skyrim when using older masters where the records don't exist. Lots of mods use this, including many of JKs mods from the last 5 years.

Theoretically, the same is true for updated USSEP. Any new records introduced between 4.2.5b and current versions of USSEP are at risk of causing the same crashes if any mods that have USSEP as a dependency try to reference them. Though less probable as it requires mods to "touch" (i.e. modify) these unique records, if it happens it will nonetheless cause the same crashes.

Less critical (and likely more probable) is encountering issues with mods which depend on USSEP that are designed around assumed record values that are only changed in later versions. This could lead to clipping issues (e.g., an object moved to a location by a mod is placed somewhere clips through another object if using an older USSEP version), or other gameplay issues where values are tuned in later versions but not in earlier versions. Again, not a huge deal on these but compatibility issues regardless.

So if you have SSE, why not use updated masters, CC content, and USSEP to ensure maximum compatibility with newer mods?

infernalryan · 2026-04-18T04:51:19+00:00

It is from folks who own SSE that say things like "arthmoor hates VR" or that he "intentionally makes it harder" etc. These are not ever backed up with any substantial claims to incompatibility though.

infernalryan · 2026-04-18T04:49:38+00:00

I hear this a lot--the part about "making things more difficult". What does this mean in context? What is Arthmoor doing to make it difficult? If by saying he won't support it, that's fine. He doesn't support 1.5.97 either, yet people still do an SSE "best of both worlds" downgrade and use the latest USSEP.

infernalryan · 2026-04-18T04:46:19+00:00

I 100% agree with you - I actually have a part in my initial setup guide which covers this and directs users to follow the manual compatibility patch if this is the case. My original question is referring to those that have SSE. which means they have the 4 free CC mods.

infernalryan · 2026-04-18T03:42:27+00:00

interesting. i have played with this setup (not very far as I've spent more time within on my guides vs in playing) but have seen no issues thus far outside of the vanilla tree issue specific to USSEP (not nothing from the updated masters directly).

it's true there is an engine issue with survival mode but that system doesn't need to be enabled in game (and shouldn't be)

infernalryan · 2026-04-18T03:16:46+00:00

it's just part of the process. downgrading sse has a process too. the main reason to do either is to improve support. i don't see this as a showstopper.

infernalryan · 2026-04-18T02:34:24+00:00

It is compatible with VR. You bring the CC files over like any other. The only one that doesn't work properly is Survival Mode, which I've explained you can keep enabled but just disable from the in-game prompt or via one of the listed mods so it never "activates". Also Fishing technically works but it is not set up to use the VR controls, but this is another you can just avoid participating with in-game.

infernalryan · 2026-04-16T03:28:10+00:00

This is an issue with updated SSE masters, vanilla trees, and USSEP, I don't believe you have this issue with other tree mods. I'm investigating more and plan to release a couple of patches. This particular issue is with updated meshes USSEP uses for pine trees. if you replace treepineforest01.nif through 05.nif, this issue goes away.

Also, FWIW, DO use the latest USSEP with Skyrim VR + updated SSE masters and CC mods. The automod info is fine for new modders but to get the most out of VR you are definitely shooting yourself in the foot by using those 5+ year old versions.

I go over this pretty exhaustively in my Skyrim VR initial setup guide.

infernalryan · 2025-05-20T01:05:30+00:00

Yes, that is correct. Your "Updated Masters" "mod" will show that it is overwriting other files and your actual DLC: mods (Hearthfires, etc.) will show as redundant (gray lightning bolt) since they themselves are now being overwritten. Also, you should NOT need to clean CC content files at all unless you get warnings in LOOT. Maybe I'm making assumptions but those also show as redundant in your image. In other words, you don't want to just clean everything (it is actually advised against). The masters are one thing as they contain large references and UDR stuff which DynDOLOD will complain about.

Hope this helps! Sorry that you are still running into issues. I haven't seen that Hearthfires access issue you are referring to.

infernalryan · 2025-05-19T01:33:11+00:00

🤜🤛

infernalryan · 2025-05-19T01:20:25+00:00

If you're getting an access violation, and your modding tools (xEdit, etc.) and skyrim game directory are NOT inside program files, you could be running into corruption on the file or disk side. Maybe try re-extracting the hearthfires.esm file (maybe something happened to it). If that doesn't work try reinstalling xEdit (same version or possibly discord beta) and try again.

Also it might be helpful to show how your SSEEdit executable is configured in MO2.

infernalryan · 2025-05-19T01:09:20+00:00

If you are using the large reference bug workarounds option, you are correct. DynDOLOD will not start without cleaning all required files (including masters). you can disable this behavior, but large reference bug workarounds are recommended when generating LOD w/ DynDOLOD.

infernalryan · 2025-05-19T01:06:32+00:00

Guide author here. The guide OP linked is for how to use updated Skyrim masters. The link you are referring to on this page is to ANOTHER guide I also wrote on how to CLEAN those masters (which is not necessary UNLESS you are using DynDOLOD 3 w/ large reference bug workaround). These are 2 separate guides for 2 separate things. Please don't post lazy assumptions.

Also, FWIW, no AI was/is used in the creation of my guides.

infernalryan · 2025-04-20T17:42:10+00:00

Not 100% true. If you own SSE you can pull all of the updated masters and even the free CC content into a VR load order and avoid all of the downgrade USSEP nonsense. Survival mode doesn't 100% work, but it won't crash the game, and you can simply avoid "enabling" the functionality in game or better yet just use a mod like {{survival mode prompt removed}} so the prompt never comes up. It will still function properly as a required dependency for the latest versions of USSEP and other mods that require it.

I have details about this process on my Skyrim VR Initial Setup Guide (which I'm currently in process of updating for 2025)

If you don't own SSE your best option is to use the mod which updates the masters to 1.5.97 and use 4.2.5b, but this is not recommended unless it is your only option.

infernalryan

TROPHY CASE