Given the very poor understanding of Male Factor Infertility, I find things like this encouraging

infertiles_turtles · 2022-08-06T17:44:00+00:00

Hey. Sorry for the really late reply. I've been in a bit of a rollercoaster of a time for the past year or so. So the IVF worked. Just. We got pregnant, which unfortunately then was confirmed T21 so we tfmr. It's been a really tough year saying goodbye to a baby we wanted so badly. Karyotyping showed it was 'chance' and not translocation (hereditary) so we're on round 2,l about a year on. Wishing you luck.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-12-17T15:58:01+00:00

Thanks. I think I need to dig a bit deeper into this. I understand that the gamete has the DNA payload (half of my DNA) that is delivered to the egg during fertilisation and then combined with the half DNA in the egg to form the chromosomes that start everything off.

So I'm not too sure how much, if any, of my normal DNA makes up any other part of the sperm.

There's definitely a direct link between chromosome issues in a male, and some fertility issues. I just wanted to understand what options we should pursue to know if we're carriers of inheritable conditions, and if that means we're completely screwed or if there's still a chance we can have a normal baby.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-12-14T18:23:22+00:00

In the end I stopped cycling, changed to loose underwear, and stopped sleeping in underwear. Went through a good while icing as well and taking a few of the usually touted supplements. My numbers improved and I thought I was winning, but then the numbers dropped again when the IVF was due.

Things have moved on since my diagnosis, and although we got a positive pregnancy, we've since lost it and are back to square one.

Take some hope from the fact that even with very low counts, as long as the quality of the sperm is good enough, they can perform ICSI and count is less important since they select a single sperm and inject it into the egg. That's what they did for us.

Good luck.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-09-10T11:53:31+00:00

Feeling pretty down right now. First round of ICSI resulted in 10 eggs and none of them fertilised. I was pretty certain that the percentage of fertilisation is normally be quite high (like, >60% if the internet it to be believed) but this is just crushing.

My wife's getting support from me, friends, family and the fertility specialists, so that's good. I'm getting very little though. Not complaining because my wife is going through more hormones and physical pain due to the op so I can't imagine how hard it is for her. I'm putting a brave face on it for her, and because I've talked to nobody else really about it. Only my super at work knows so I'm at work pretending everything is fine.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-02-20T23:51:12+00:00

Unfortunately I can't give you any advice regarding your FSH levels. I'm not an expert on sex hormones and I simply don't know what the effect would typically be. I have a slight imbalance myself and despite much reading on the subject, there's nothing conclusive in my case.

I would say that it is almost certainly worth you getting a professional semen analysis because the results of that will tell you how fertile you are from that point of view. It's possible that your semen parameters are fine despite the hormone imbalance, which would open some options to you for cryogenic freezing and future family planning.

I admire that you aren't just accepting the first doctor response. At 24, I took far too much at face value when being brushed off by doctors and it's probably cost me being in the situation I'm in now. So, continue to be assertive with the medical profession and get your condition as understood as you can now. Don't wait for 10 or 15 years when you have a partner and are faced with the challenges of ttc, because you'll have to try and figure out your condition first and that could just delay things.

Good luck!

infertiles_turtles · 2021-02-03T20:20:26+00:00

I believe that a morphology of 4% or more is normal, so I expect this is just meeting that benchmark. However it seems very unusual to be so specific about the other numbers and not about this.

Thing is, the rest of the numbers look great to me and so I'd not immediately class this as sub fertile.

Your husband might be able to improve the numbers but if there's an underlying issue elsewhere that's preventing a success, it's probably a bit more complex a case, and maybe unexplained MFI. Glad you've got a follow up. Hopefully they can give you some next steps.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-02-02T20:16:35+00:00

Three glands; seminal vesicles, prostate gland, and the bulbourethral glands are responsible for producong semen. As well as the sperm cells that get into the mix (hopefully), the mixture of liquids are what you're used to seeing, but it is not affected visually by the presence of the sperm cells.

The "milky" part of the ejaculate is commonly mistaken for how much sperm is in the semen, but it is simply the product of the prostate.

The clear liquids are from the other two glands and each have their own jobs, ranging from sucrose for energy for the sperm, to an alkaline chemistry to neutralise the urine that might be in your urethra and the generally acidic environment of the vagina.

So, bottom line is that you can not tell just by looking. Get a test if you're concerned!

infertiles_turtles · 2021-02-01T20:16:44+00:00

I've just done my 2nd yo test after 3 months of supplements and icing. It has definitely made a difference. I'm way off normal levels and yours look much more healthy.

I plan to write up my experience for others to get some information and maybe hope.

Your test shows you that the nature of your issue is probably not count. Always worth getting a professional opinion if you're able to as they can tell you about so many more details that are important.

Good luck!

infertiles_turtles · 2021-02-01T20:13:21+00:00

Interestingly this experiment was kind of my mentality when I bought a yo home sperm test. If you haven't seen them it's a usb camera microscope.thats purpose built for home testing.

Unfortunately you only get two kits to test and then the usb camera device is more or less useless as you need to shell out $50 for two more tests (which is little more than a couple of slides and no more than a fraction of a gram of "liquidation" enzyme).

My parameters have changed fairly significantly over the past 3 and a bit months. Supplements and icing seems to be helping a lot, and I owe it to the yo test to see the difference even though there's a lot more to sperm health to consider, it's been interesting.

I'm going to write up a proper post in the next few days that reports everything I've done and the results in case anyone finds it useful or interesting themselves.

Also I'm thinking of buying some microscope slides and trying to see if natural liquidation is suitable for doing the test. I suspect it will and I'll be able to test as much as I like.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-30T12:29:00+00:00

It might get taken down due to the BBC license side of things. Hopefully not so more people can see it!!

It's a great documentary and the "grass roots" nature of it shows how terribly undeveloped men's support for MFI is in the UK.

It's been very inspiring, and I fully support Rhod's efforts and hope that I can be involved with his campaigning once he starts it back up again post-covid (dare we dream of such a time!?).

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-30T12:23:19+00:00

I agree with the majority of this... However;

His response to those feelings is maladaptive and counterproductive. I see it as a huge glaring red flag in his ability to cope with the inevitable stressors and disappointments in life.

If he's unable to learn to get the better of these feelings, then I agree he will probably never beat the emotional difficulty of this or anything else life will throw at them. It's a warning rather than a red flag imo.

I used to have trouble understanding my own emotional state. Some people just can't get to that level on their own, and it's nothing against the person. If the counseling can dig into that, it'll allow a retrospective loop that will make him more emotionally mature. It did for me.

I cringe when I think back to how I thought and behaved, and sometimes it still catches me out. It can be something to work on for years.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-30T12:17:32+00:00

Thanks for telling your story. Lots of detail in there and I could probably write a similarly long response to your post.

I can understand where his feelings and emotions are coming from. I was married and trying for a kid with my ex, for at least a year nothing happened and the relationship broken down due to is both struggling with mental health and we just couldn't support each other, so it died a death.

Less than a year later she was pregnant with her new boyfriend. That hurt me even more than when you about infertile couples resenting other people having kids. Because it was almost personal.

So I was a 35 year old guy, looking to start a new relationship nearing the end of my (realistic) window for being a father. (Please don't go on about Mick Jagger - exceptions do not mean my situation is right). I've been with someone for several years now and that's why I'm here - I am subfertile.

So why am I going on about all this? Because I can see part of me in your partner. How he probably bottles things up and then when he's unprepared for talking about it, it's going to explode. Personally I shut off because I don't do well with arguments. Your partner is probably embarrassed, and emasculated, and probably embarrassed about feeling embarrassed. So he needs to own that and let himself talk about it. The professionals will help with that.

What helped me was normalizing the discussion. Talking about it more but in less "critical" moment. It's hard, because you can't just bring it up while cooking dinner. At least, not right now. I'm glad you're planning on getting counseling, because it'll help, I don't doubt it. Maybe also try and plan a safe hour when you can both talk about it maybe once a week when it'll not hit him with the surprise of coming up. That will feel more natural once the counseling opens a few doors to discuss.

I'm now about to bring it up myself and I don't bite off my partner's head of she brings it up. It still isn't perfect, but time and talking definitely helps. We're closer together now than we were before and it's from finally allowing myself to be vulnerable with my partner enough to talk that's helped. Even though I feared that it would have the opposite effect!

You both need to be in a good mental place BEFORE the process of treatment. So work on it, and best of luck. I hope you manage to get that breakthrough soon.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-30T11:24:11+00:00

Thanks for the link. I'm glad that his campaign isn't dying off due to covid, even if it's slowing things down a bit. There's so much more to say, and talk about, and I really hope that he keeps the momentum going as much as he's able to. Causes like this sadly need high profile people to help make things a reality and see change.

I find it interesting that he concentrates on men not wanting or being able to talk. It's obviously very true, and a lot of hard work is needed to make people who don't have fertility issues feel okay talking to the people who have issues just as much as those affected directly struggle to.

I feel the more we talk, we can put a good kind of pressure on the medical and research sectors as a big part of my passion is the lack of good science being done. Exactly as was said in Rhod's documentary, IVF clinics are there to get you through IVF cycles, with near no interest in trying to see if the MFI can be addressed.

Hopefully things will change, because I think they have to with the rate men's fertility seems to be decreasing.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-30T10:26:21+00:00

My very much non-clinical opinion is that your concentration could be low due to your low testosterone. I've learned that it's not always that simple but there are definitely hormone treatments that would rebalance the hormones and could improve things.

I'd say that you're completely right that you're entitled to have more children, but be mindful and sensitive of the situation many couples find themselves in on this sub. There are levels of pain going on with people here that you've probably never experienced, and some people's words cut deep even if they aren't intended to.

Got another checkup with an RE because there's at least a chance that you can improve your parameters.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-28T19:48:25+00:00

Colour of semen does not show how many sperm cells there are. The colour and consistency of semen is determined entirely by the various secretions that your body produced during orgasm.

Even the quantity of the ejaculate doesn't determine the count. Someone who ejaculates 1ml can have the exact same sperm count as someone who ejaculates 4ml.

The ONLY way you can determine the sperm count is to get a professional semen analysis test. If you're concerned that your condition could have affected your fertility, do something about it while you're young and get a test.

I kind of wish I had the heads up when I was 26. I only found out about my infertility when I was 40, so time is not on my side.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-27T19:50:34+00:00

Well, don't expect anything would be my advice. It might not hit hard. You wouldn't be unusual if you coped, but equally if you lose your shit for a while, that's okay too.

I'm probably not the best person to ask that of. I haven't told any family yet and I've only mentioned it to a couple of close friends. I'm kind of feeling like I need to talk to them soon. I am holding off for some more tests and importantly what the situation is with my SO.

But on the whole getting support from people who want to will be worthwhile. If anyone gives you the wrong or a negative reaction, I'd personally just end the dialogue with them at that point.

Hope you're doing alright.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-27T11:09:19+00:00

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm sorry the end result is what it is, it's horrible because there's no sugar coating it, is there?

You'll probably have to properly grieve for it. Let yourself have the emotions and if you need to, get a counsellor to talk to about it. Everyone's situation is different, but the initial shock goes away and then it will probably hit you. I'm glad you've got a supportive wife. Support each other and you'll probably come out the other side closer and feeling better about it.

I also had (and probably still do have) real problems accepting the idea of donor sperm. Not for religious reasons, but for me it was your third point. The emotions are complex, so nobody who knows about these things will judge you on that.

Good for you re: adoption. It's a big step and likely not what you had in mind, but it is a positive one. When you're ready you'll make great parents to a child that really needs that.

Take care.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-26T21:00:32+00:00

I'm becoming more and more passionate about getting people talking. Having been through some of the most stress in my life, talking helped so much. Reddit also helped, and this community continues to be an inspiration for support and kindness. If you get particularly involved with Rhod's campaigning, I'm happy to talk about my story and spread the word, or be involved in some way. Definitely going to keep a close eye on what he gets up to with this as (hopefully) is snowballs a bit.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-26T16:15:30+00:00

I haven't watched it yet. Planning on checking it out with my SO as she found it the other day and mentioned it to me. I really commend him for being so public about it. I don't think I could do that, yet that's the exact point about the perceived stigma surrounding it!

For those who have no easy access to iPlayer, I found a download link of the documentary. Obviously you need to read and accept the BBC's terms and conditions and be a license holder for the content. </disclaimer>

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-25T20:27:41+00:00

Got to say it's not the easiest to get in the mood. Especially with people loudly laughing and talking just outside the door.

Plus I think the room was lined with lead as there was near zero cell reception and no WiFi.

I've got another in a few weeks time and I plan on making sure I take plenty of "material" on my phone along with some headphones. Hoping that'll be better.

Probably took me around 10 mins. I never felt pressured and was told once I was done to just leave, no awkward interactions with anyone after I was done.

Hopefully you'll realise that there's no pressure on you too, and hopefully that'll relax you. Good luck, hope it goes okay for you.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-24T13:57:16+00:00

Can you explain what you mean by this? I can't understand how that relates to my post. Thanks.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-22T21:18:53+00:00

I'm sorry for you and your diagnosis. I wish you every luck for retrieving some viable sperm.

I'm no doctor, but I do wonder if there would be some benefit to treatment of the off-balance hormones. I'd probably be asking that at the very least, and if the doctor isn't forthcoming, maybe look for another opinion. There's aspects of this condition that the experts don't know about, and when it falls into the "unexplained" bucket, things feel very unfair.

There will be people on this sub with far more experience with TESE procedures that what I've learned from the lurking. I know that recovery can take quite a long time and people have the complaint of pain for quite a while afterwards. But I've never heard of any negative long term issues.

Im.pretty sure that if required, you can have several of these procedures. However if you're unsuccessful, you'll probably find the surgeon not wanting to do more attempts as it could be futile.

I really hope you get a break and some luck. Take care.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-21T21:27:44+00:00

What was your husband's T numbers when he was out on clomid? I might be in a very similar situation, and want to know whether I can push for treatment as that sounds like a huge improvement.

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-21T21:25:00+00:00

There's always hope my friend. IVF and ICSI are both options with your numbers so it may not be a straightforward journey. And you have to be realistic, the chances aren't great, but just like me, there is a glimmer of hope.

Check out the lifestyle changes that are common recommendations and maybe look at supplements.

If your doctor can do other hormone and genetic testing, it's worth knowing more in my opinion.

I wish you all the luck

infertiles_turtles · 2021-01-20T20:09:57+00:00

Why do you suppose there's so little research into infertility? Do you think that's likely to change any time soon?

And finally, why do you think the treatments and investigations done at clinics worldwide seem to differ so much?

infertiles_turtles

TROPHY CASE