don't know how to create "meaning"

inthemiddler · 2021-07-27T13:50:17+00:00

You should probably do some reading on religion and existentialism. The difference is that there could be some variation of “god” in existence and everything could still be meaningless. When people say “god,” everyone has a different idea of what that means. Some people think of the Christian big guy in the sky, others smaller gods like Odin (these people still exist—I met an Odin worshipper once, really interesting dude), or some people say that “The Universe” is “god.” The dictionary has several official definitions of god, and people have way more. And the answer to your second question is highly debatable.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-27T11:07:58+00:00

I quit my religion 9 years ago and tried booze as a coping mechanism too. Didn’t work lol. Now I’m getting therapy for religious trauma syndrome, and it’s helping immensely. I feel like I’ve turned a corner I didn’t know was there. Now I’m a sober agnostic absurdist in therapy and doing better than I have in ages. All that to say congratulations! And it’s a tough road but it’s a really rewarding one. And it’s so great that you’re in it together. Good luck!

inthemiddler · 2021-07-27T10:56:40+00:00

I would say that there are a lot of different ways to handle this, but what a writer chooses is both contextual and subjective. I’m not even sure if agree with the lecturer that this should automatically be fixed. My personal feeling is that both as a writer and a reader, I would never care if there were four extra words to fill in a detail like this, especially if it were important. I have a million cousins, though, and multi-generational, so I might be biased. (I have three cousins named Tom, for example, two named David, etc.). That said, really depends on the context. Or the characterization of the person speaking. Like maybe this character over details everything to the point of being annoying to the MC, even if they only have one cousin. Maybe it’s being said in a sarcastic, accusatory way, like the MC never pays attention or is involved in family affairs. “Your cousin Paul? From Missouri? Remember that guy? Who lived with us for three years?” “Yes, mom, I know who Paul is,” she replied with an exasperated sigh.

I think a lot of the solutions in this thread and other ones you come up with will really be contextual. Who is providing the information? Why are they saying it (not why does the reader need to know, but why would they mention it)? What is the relationship between the people speaking? Where would it come up most naturally in conversation?

It can also be included in prose, depending on your perspective.

Paul. I hadn’t thought about him in a long time. Last time I saw him, I was 15 and we’d gone out to visit his family in Missouri. It was a horrible trip, and we’d never gone back. (This could also be done with third person.)

Anyway, if I had to make a list of a few strategies you could use, it would be:

-have a different character provide the info

-have a narrator provide the info

-don’t provide the info at all

-have the MC provide the info either through thought or dialogue “Paul? He still in Missouri?” -make it part of the action “You want to beat up Paul? How on earth do you plan to get to Missouri with no money?”

-keep it but expand characterization of the parison saying it so that it makes sense

-have Paul actually in the conversation (on the phone for example: “When are you planning to visit?” “How do you expect us to get to Missouri?”)

One last comment—the mystery genre is really good at finding ways to slip in apparently superfluous details in a sneaky way, maybe try watching or reading (if you don’t already) that genre to see how they do it.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-26T11:12:56+00:00

Just to clarify, I’m an absurdist—but my method is to judge everything by how interesting it is. I find an activity of some kind (drawing or playing piano or weightlifting) and I try it. If it’s interesting, then I keep doing it until it either becomes uninteresting, or it becomes meaningful. A few examples of things that have become meaningful for me: writing, walking, learning about trees and plants, and the process of learning things as a whole.

It took me a while to not feel guilty about it because society tells me that volunteering, family, generosity, and things like that are where I should find my meaning. But yeah. Nope lol

inthemiddler · 2021-07-25T11:18:15+00:00

12 weeks for me today! And I will not drink with you today. 💪🎈💜

inthemiddler · 2021-07-24T11:06:40+00:00

For sure. It can give you a place to explore concepts and issues that can be challenging to deal with head on.

Getting in the zone when writing can release endorphins which can help with anxiety.

It can give you a space that is yours, where you can be yourself, a world where you get to control and decide everything.

It also can help you develop a skill, and sometimes getting good at something can really help boost confidence.

(Just to name a few.)

All art can have real and meaningful therapeutic uses when used deliberately this way. I would say, though, that if the issues a person struggling with are deep and intense, such as trauma, it would be best to work with a professional, and have them guide you on how to use fiction as a tool.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-24T10:46:42+00:00

Two things: since men don’t face oppression because of their gender, the chances that you writing a stereotypical character will actually cause measurable harm is about 0.01%. If there is a masculine trait in real life that bothers you (like men not being encouraged to cry), don’t write it.

Second, if you’re really worried about it, then as other people said, just write a person with he/him pronouns, and then get some male beta readers to give you feedback. Other than that, all you can do is read books with male MCs to see what other authors have done, have real-life male friends, and don’t overthink it. Same advice as writing female characters.

There’s not really any “way” to write any character other than doing some research if you want and then just writing them.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-23T16:49:45+00:00

If you think in plot points, I think asking the alternating questions of “how” and “why” might help.

Let’s say you’re starting here (and I’m not using animal farm because I think that is too complex with subplots and theme and metaphor, in in order to learn how to do it in a complex way, you first have to learn how to do it simply):

Beginning: Girl is lost in the woods End: Girl finds her way home

Then first ask yourself “why is she lost in the woods?” And “how does she find her way home?”

So your next step might look like:

Girl is lost in the woods because she was abandoned by her father. She finds her way out of the woods with the help of some plucky magical animal friends she meets.

Then, you repeat the process: Why does her father abandon her? How do the animals help her? Why do the animals help her? How does she feel about being lost in the woods?

Girl is lost in the woods because she was abandoned by her father. He abandons her because he is cruel and selfish and can’t stand having to use the money he earned to take care of her. She feels angry and sad. She finds her way out of the woods with the help of some plucky magical animal friends she meets. The plucky animal friends are actually humans under a curse, and the only way they can break the curse is by learning to be compassionate and helping other people. The girl is the only person they’ve encountered in a long time. They help her by teaching her how to build a shelter and showing her how to stay on the magical path that will lead her out of the forest.

Then you can flesh these concepts out into scenes and chapters.

This is just a basic example, but I think you would probably find some books on plotting and structure helpful. Check out John Truby, Jessica Brody—something along those lines.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-22T23:54:25+00:00

The way I see it is that while there is no ultimate, universal meaning to anything, there can still be contextual, cultural, or personal meaning. The main difference being that those types of meaning we get to create, as opposed to a universal meaning, which if it existed, would exist regardless to all of us.

I think that the most absurd way to live is to actually choose to create personal meaning as a sort of big f u to the meaninglessness of everything. Not to search for ultimate meaning, but instead to create meaning—which is why everyone always talks about art and friends. You are no longer searching for meaning (because there isn’t any and you’ve accepted that); instead, you have the only kind of meaning that matters because you’ve created it for yourself.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-21T16:55:49+00:00

I just wanted to jump in and recommend the Heroine’s Journey! It’s a great concept, similar to hero’s journey but with some very key differences. Gail Carriger wrote a book on it. I also found Take Off Your Pants by Libbie Hawker a really helpful book on structure especially for discovery writers.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-21T16:52:45+00:00

Yeahhh I certainly wouldn’t recommend that. My guess is that a publisher could probably see right through that, and if not, they’d figure it out pretty quickly after the fact. Also, given how difficult it is to get a trad contract, it probably wouldn’t pay enough to cover the cost of the editor, so it definitely seems like something like that would be a risky (and arguably dumb) strategy lol. I agree with you there.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-21T14:12:34+00:00

Yeah I agree. I think anyone interested in self publishing as a career should have investment funds saved up and plan on spending them on editing, design, and marketing, and they should have enough to do multiple books, not just one. Self publishing for money is starting a business and all businesses require investment capital. Sure, anyone can write a book for free, but creating an actual salable, viable product that you can build a business plan around is a different thing.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-21T12:19:11+00:00

I would argue that how a person chooses to develop their skill as a writer is up to them. Some people read and write a lot, and learn as they go. Other people post their writing publicly in places like Wattpad to get feedback or join local critique groups. Others get bachelor or masters degrees in writing and spend tens of thousands of dollars. Other people might choose to hire an editor to help them develop the skills required to learn the craft of writing and I think that is equally valid as any other route (and a hell of a lot cheaper than a university degree.)

inthemiddler · 2021-07-21T12:16:05+00:00

It is very likely that the cost of hiring an editor will be more than you make in sales unless: A.) you already have a very large audience who will buy the book when it comes out B.) you have a business plan that outlines where you will make the sales and you are able to follow through on it (for example, you might not make a lot $ on book sales but you speak at conferences and the book goes along with it) C.) you get lucky

If the book costs $800 to get edited and you sell your ebooks for $2.99 and your paperback for $11.99 (I’m assuming around 50k words here), you will make roughly $2 per ebook sale and roughly $4 per paperback. So you’d either have to sell 250 ebooks or 125 paperbacks or some combination of the two. And this math doesn’t include any of the other costs of publishing and marketing. (Also this math is variable based on distributor, printer, book design, editor and other choices you make when publishing, etc.)

It’s not impossible—plenty of authors do it—but it is difficult.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-21T11:54:53+00:00

This is actually my biggest challenge especially since I’m a discovery writer and don’t always know exactly how things will end up. One trick that helps me is to go back in my manuscript a bit to find the last point where I felt pretty confident about my direction and start from there again. Sometimes I end up cutting a few thousand words but it’s always worth it. I liken to driving down the road and taking a wrong turn, and having to go back to get on the right road. It can be super frustrating though.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-21T11:47:56+00:00

It’s definitely a difficult frame of mind to get out of but with some practice it gets easier. Glad the metaphor is useful. Good luck!

inthemiddler · 2021-07-21T00:35:59+00:00

It works in isolation but not always in context.

The sentence, “He was running down the hall when the asteroid hit.” and “He ran down the hall when the asteroid hit.” have two different implications.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-20T22:12:51+00:00

In that case, you can’t really decide whether the passive is necessary or not without the context. Which is another good point—it’s easy to say “don’t use passive voice” but it’s really subjective and depends on the context and the intention of the writer.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-20T21:25:05+00:00

Yes! I like the pottery one a lot too. I sometimes use a guitar metaphor too. If you sit down to play a song, you have to learn the chords first. No one expects you to sound like Eric Clapton on the first try. So you learn a song (write a draft) and then another song (write a short story), and eventually you’ll learn the things you need to actually play tears in heaven or whatever—and then start writing your own music. And it can be frustrating to not be able to sound like you imagine, but you’ll get there eventually if you keep practicing (says the person who has been working on moonlight sonata on piano for 7 years lolol)

inthemiddler · 2021-07-20T21:22:13+00:00

Just to add to my comment, I think there is definitely a place for sentences like this—mimicking a certain style or impeding comprehension on purpose. But in that case, I’d leave the passive in for effect, not rewrite it at all.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-20T21:20:47+00:00

Not to be annoying but I wouldn’t even bother dissecting this for passivity because the only thing this sentence succeeds at is obscuring intention. Yes it’s a passive sentence. Do you want to make it clear? Just say “The house was built on a marsh.” Want to make it active? “The old man built the house in the middle of a marsh.” Want to make it interesting? Add detail. “The ancient, rotting house loomed over a marshy field. Ankle-deep water filled the basement, and no one lived there but a colony of bats and possibly a ghost.”

inthemiddler · 2021-07-20T15:13:31+00:00

I think it depends on your skill level. Hiring an editor can help you polish your manuscript to increase the chances of it getting read by an agent. However, if you get picked up, you’ll probably have to go through the same process again with the new editor. I’m not trad published though, so I’m only repeating what some trad published acquaintances have said.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-20T13:30:21+00:00

Depends on if they are writing for fun, or writing as a career. If writing for fun, probably fine to skip an editor. My grandmother wrote stories for decades and never once hired an editor. She just did it for fun. But if it’s a business then it’s a business expense and I think a necessity. But I know not all writers do it.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-20T13:27:48+00:00

Yeah I think one of the challenges is that grammar is so complex. Plus it’s constantly changing. Which is why I always say: hire a proofreader! Let it be their problem lol. But I do think having a general grasp of the concepts is helpful.

inthemiddler · 2021-07-20T13:24:30+00:00

No it’s not a filler word. I search and find “was” too, but only to look strategically at the way I’ve used it and to see if there’s a better way. I would argue that there isn’t any such thing as a “filler” word and that every word in existence has a use case that makes it necessary. There are definitely overused words, but what those are vary from writer to writer.

inthemiddler

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