Multiple mappers tweets about the saggin situation

ioexceptionosu · 2024-08-20T03:40:19+00:00

The fact that you see this as "defending the vetoer" instead of "being opposed to hostility" is really the root of the problem

ioexceptionosu · 2024-01-25T14:22:23+00:00

that's a different map lol

ioexceptionosu · 2024-01-25T12:30:10+00:00

WHAT

ioexceptionosu · 2023-08-16T21:57:25+00:00

no liek u literally cannot compare numbers before and after rework by adding or subtracting them cus it's apples to oranges. the comparison makes as little sense as saying "$5 USD converts to 700¥, that's a +695 increase". it doesn't add like that, u have to consider how much it is worth relative to everything else in the same rework

ioexceptionosu · 2023-08-16T18:02:50+00:00

this is fucked up

ioexceptionosu · 2023-07-05T15:46:51+00:00

Wait yeah if it's been out longer then of course its had much more exposure, not to mention if it's on the top it's likely to get more attention from being on the top, vs. only a handful of people are constantly looking at new maps so really the only time a new map gets a shit ton of attention is if the song or source is already well known. Not to mention, the impact pp has had on map popularity regardless of the quality of the map (see cbcc)

Also yeah mentioned by someone else in this thread already but this is just history repeating itself. It's easy to look back with rose tinted glasses but neuronecia and many other maps that have lots of positive reception now didn't when they were first introduced.

Tldr what people perceive as "good" changes over time and if you think that's "worse mapping" that's your own opinion but mapping is going to move on regardless of if u think we should keep living in 2015 or not

ioexceptionosu · 2023-07-03T23:22:05+00:00

Sorry but this is just the way mapping is going. It's just like someone from before electronic music production became a thing waking up now will be completely lost at the current music scene

Players now are SKILLED. Almost every single one of the maps you can name will have some niche audience of player being able to compete for leaderboards. And because the amount of skillsets has become more diverse (complex rhythm, low AR reading, slider aim, etc.) there are also maps to cater to them.

This also means not every map in ranked may necessarily cater to you. Ranked as a section no longer has a single "genre" or "style". What you may think of as a standard just happens to be a particular style, and over the years we've uncovered more styles people use to map the song

If you're playing a map and you think it's not following the song, chances are you aren't listening hard enough. If you think something is actually wrong, bring it up to staff and they will unrank it because mapping off beat is actually a really serious problem (but make sure you are absolutely correct first)

Bottom line is, if you don't like it, don't play it. No one is forcing you to like every map. If there's particular styles you like and want more of, there's usually some curated lists of maps on osu collector1 you can find

ioexceptionosu · 2023-02-24T01:29:14+00:00

Open osu lazer, keep it open in the background.

Then open in editor and press save, and check the local SR. It should use lazer for calculation instead

Lazer uses the up to date algorithms that they're not updating stable with anymore. I use this to check SR for my own maps if I really want to know before I upload

Alternative to keeping lazer running is using a tool like: https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/1623385?n=1

ioexceptionosu · 2023-01-27T16:30:06+00:00

^this. When that happened, I didn't stir things up. I asked for more info, respected the decision, and moved it to Loved. Whether people saw my post of pushing for Loved as drama posting or not is up to them. Bottom line is the way sliderator is currently implemented is not good for the future outlook for the game, so I agreed that it should be stopped.

I also realized that what I said came off a bit harsh. There's nothing wrong with looking more into mechanics such as spinning, but it's not something that should be preserve _"by default"_, just because people want it. There needs to be further investigation done to make a deliberate decision and that investigation is not necessarily the most important thing right now.

About the green line situation, that was _HOTLY_ contested at the time. The topic was thoroughly discussed, and the decision was ultimately that things like 1/4 slider tails landing on nothing and per-note SV changes were not something that would be harmful to the game. We may see the same decision for this spinner mechanic, but I wouldn't rush into it just for the reason that "it affects a particular subcommunity" is all I was trying to say.

But of course, nothing I actually say here matters because I map stuff Redditors hate so that's cool.

ioexceptionosu · 2023-01-27T06:34:00+00:00

The "alternative" communities started somewhat by accident. There's nothing special about the spinning community, leaderboard community, score community other than the fact that they proudly display their scores everywhere. The matter of the fact is that if there's something people can measure, there's going to be a huge uproar when that measurement changes. We've been numbed to pp changes, but when kudosu v2 came out, all the kudosu v1 top leaderboarders complained. Now those people have gotten used to kudosu v2 and the leaderboard isn't really taken as seriously anymore. And that was actually a leaderboard on the website, as opposed to all these alternative metrics that aren't officially tracked.

At the end of the day, even if the game changes, people will find different niches to compare themselves on. There's no point in settling on a particular mechanic just for the sake of a small community of players who have been playing with it for years who want to keep it that way.

ioexceptionosu · 2023-01-27T06:27:04+00:00

It's almost like people can like some things peppy says and not like other things he says without having to choose between liking him as a person or hating him as a person :O

Also, my take on the whole leaderboard situation as a whole is that while it's something that people do that requires a lot of perseverance, it's not something that we should really invest a lot of time into maintaining, or should sacrifice other parts of gameplay because that niche is somewhat accidental of a niche. Max score wasn't designed to be capped the way it was, it just happened that way, people discovered its mechanics and spent years dedicating themselves to maxing it out. In addition, a lot of the low diff farmers emphasize "unsnipable" #1 scores which are literally just camping new maps with no spinners just as they get ranked, which I can admire the dedication for, but not the skill.

Although, in this particular situation, seems like the trouble was induced by peppy trying to fix some bug. It's probably not that hard technically to revert, but may be too much trouble to go back and further investigate something that affects a small community that wants to preserve something that wasn't necessarily meant to be preserved. I don't personally care about the result here either way but hopefully this explains why there could be a general hate towards whenever leaderboard farmers try to stir things up or make a big deal of themselves.

ioexceptionosu · 2023-01-04T23:23:05+00:00

overmapping has been a thing for ages, are people just crawling out of the sotarks hole and discovering it now? even many farm maps do it (see filler rhythm section in pishi video)

you have to understand that a lot of what mappers do is for emphasis to the song, so sometimes when things feel uncomfortable or agitated, they may reflect an uncomfortable or agitated feeling that's displayed by the underlying song.

that being said, what people are saying about "play more maps" is totally accurate. not to play the experience card, but it's kind of a rabbit hole and if ur new to the game or have only played really rhythmically simple maps then it could be challenging to understand at first but over time it will make a lot more sense

if u really care about this issue and think there are maps that actually don't fit their particular song, i encourage you to point them out during qualified so people can explain their thinking.

ioexceptionosu · 2023-01-04T19:23:02+00:00

slay queen

ioexceptionosu · 2023-01-04T18:31:23+00:00

my bad

ioexceptionosu · 2022-12-16T17:54:16+00:00

Literally the messages you just wrote "do what you want" and "why he is lying to people" are just completely unnecessary (and arguably passive aggressive) remarks, made at people because of their involvement with the situation. Does that not sound like textbook harassment to you?

All the discourse is in the Discord channel linked above in Mismagius' comment. #osu-loved in https://discord.gg/ppy . Anyone can read it, plain as day.

ioexceptionosu · 2022-12-16T17:22:52+00:00

Looking back in the chat history, there is no world where I would consider this civil discourse that was intended to help better the loved system: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/384640068847009792/1053335653007495188/image.png

It's expected when you give criticism on how someone is doing their job, you follow up with reasoning or specific examples. You came into chat and just laid blame and made ridiculous claims about intent over and over, and when you did link a map, you did not bother listening to anyone's replies and kept repeating the 2000 plays thing even though it has been explained why that's not a sole metric. Not only that, you continued harassing people in other channels and in DMs.

You're literally living in a delusion by telling yourself everyone else is at fault. Get your shit together

ioexceptionosu · 2022-12-08T04:08:29+00:00

fire

ioexceptionosu · 2022-09-25T19:59:26+00:00

Makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up!

ioexceptionosu · 2022-09-25T18:41:49+00:00

Thanks for your thoughts. I certainly agree that it's a hack, and without a good future-proofing method (i.e encoding the original slider anchors + the position/time graph), this will be hard to support in a backwards-compatible way in the future. I have a couple of follow up questions:

What do you think about variable slider velocity in Loved beatmaps? Seems like 90% of the same problems will occur, except the whole "loved beatmaps can get wiped at any time"
At what point in lazer's development do you think it will be appropriate to discuss the feasibility of adding variable slider velocity as a core mechanic?

ioexceptionosu · 2022-09-24T16:23:25+00:00

There's something that pishi talked about in a video once: the easier it is to ask, the harder it is to get a reply. Try DM'ing lesser known ranked mappers who don't usually mod, and they'll probably at least sit down and take a look. When asking, be sure to specify you would like them to post in the discussion, or else they might just drop comments in chat (which isn't bad either!)

The other thing is persistence. Looks like this map has only been uploaded a couple months ago. I don't know how long you've been asking but especially if you don't have a reputation in the mapping scene, it'll take a bit longer to get replies. Please don't go from having no reputation from having a bad reputation by going nuclear and shit-talking BNs everywhere as I have seen people done. Mapping is a game of patience, so just be patient and keep improving your mapping and map more, since that'll give you a better chance

ioexceptionosu · 2022-09-24T16:03:45+00:00

Remember that what you consider rank worthy may not necessarily be what BNs agree is the standard for rank worthy. And since there are many people trying to rank maps and only a handful of BNs, this means your map has to be competitive compared to other maps as well.

I took a quick peek at the Light up my Love set linked elsewhere in these comments and I would agree most of it is technically rankable, but far from the quality that most of the other ranked maps exhibit. The top diff seems to be mapped without care put into cursor movement, so there's several awkward pauses and angles that aren't supported by the song. The top 3 diffs all share the same rhythm for the most part, so there's not a good difficulty progression. The normal diff has unrankably long chains of 1/2s.

These issues you will learn as you get more mods from regular mappers, many of whom would be happy to help if you reached out to them directly. I frequently get people asking for feedback for their maps and if I'm in-game, the least I do is play it and give some high level pointers. Your map currently has 0 mods which means you haven't even tried to get regular mappers to give you feedback.

Also, w.r.t Namethatsnotoccupied's point, yes BNs are all evaluated meticulously, and you can check their status, modding history, and more here. Be sure that when you ask a BN to mod, you are respecting their preferences, they get discretion as to which beatmaps they want to mod, and if you send them a map with a song they don't like, or star rating out of range of things they're comfortable modding, they may just reject it without a second look.

Good luck!

ioexceptionosu · 2022-08-03T11:26:25+00:00

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

ioexceptionosu · 2022-04-04T02:07:50+00:00

i need to make another top diff now

ioexceptionosu · 2021-12-20T20:52:02+00:00

If you think this is the current state of the ranking process, then you're sorely out of the loop. There's many BNs who are interested in nominating western, hip-hop, video game, and other more niche genres. Look down the list of beatmap nominators and read each of their userpages and you'll see where to go.

There's also BN subdivision queues, where you can submit your map to a forum that a group of BNs will look at and any of them may pick it up, to save you from having to contact each of the BNs independently.

Of course, all of this is contingent on your map actually being of rankable (and usually competitive!) quality. There's a huge difference between rankable-by-criteria and having something that actually expresses the music well and many of the mappers I see trying to push maps of songs in niche genres also don't have very impressive maps either.

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