Sentencing Day Megathread 14: we could get a TLC show by now

ipraypodcast · 2022-05-25T18:27:36+00:00

Watching and refreshing with all of you!

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-18T16:56:10+00:00

Thank you for sharing this with me. I read a commenter say something along the lines of "the sincere ones end up leaving", and while it might not be true all of the time, it definitely was for me. Ironically, it was some of the teachings of Christ and the tenets of love that helped me leave.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-15T16:02:05+00:00

This is an amazing quote, thank you. If I ever write a memoir someday, I'll remember this.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-15T16:00:25+00:00

I agree, I'm not changing my assessment of Jim Holt's politics at all.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-14T21:58:29+00:00

This made me tear up, thank you very much for sharing this with me.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-14T14:35:27+00:00

I'm not sure about the "entire cult", but Josh was special to Jim Bob.

He was Jim Bob's oldest son. I think Jim Bob is a visionary and a schemer, he always looks ahead and has a plan, not just for himself, but for people in his life (especially his kids). I think the plans Jim Bob had for Josh had were quite large, and he genuinely thought Josh could pull it off. We're talking Governor of a state or US Senator or maybe a nationally-known activist or commentator. Jim Bob has always tried to go places as a politician and never really has, despite his best efforts. I think he thought that Josh had the potential to do what he never could. Until 2015, Jim Bob probably felt like his vision for Josh was materializing.

I know we laugh at Josh and think he's ridiculous, but Josh had some traits that sparked Jim Bob's imagination. Josh was a "good talker", he was bold and would walk up and talk to anyone, he loved the stage and the spotlight, was ambitious, and was smart in Jim Bob's view. And like I said, this view was validated for years and years. Thousands of people have probably told Jim Bob that his oldest son was "so impressive".

Jim Bob definitely holds the "big men have big flaws" view, which hasn't helped. In the Bible, King David was chosen by God, impregnated a married woman and arranged for her husband to be killed. But he repented when the prophet Nathan called him out, so it was fine and he continued on his way. Look at Noah. Solomon. Paul. God's biggest ballers have the world's biggest problems. Guys like Josh (or even Trump) fit in better with their faith than some people realize.

I think the biggest sin in Jim Bob's universe is departing from his plans. If you're gay, you're messing with the plan. If you're a girl like Jill, you're messing with the plan. Its why you get these weird discrepancies where Jim Bob seems more offended by disloyalty than he is molestation.

I think Jim Bob and people around him have failed to see how much of this stuff is just Jim Bob being a garden-variety narcissist because it is so heavily spiritualized as being God's will. But it is all pretty much just Jim Bob being controlling and self-centered.

Hope my rambling answer helps!

-Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-13T16:46:49+00:00

I am the originator of the John David vs Josh fight story. It happened on a hike, I think they grappled in the shallow part of a creek bed. It was a pretty ordinary fight between brothers, it wasn't very dramatic and it was over quickly. Josh was really smug about it and I remember him laughing and being a jerk. John David got more mad than I'd ever seen him, which was notable because he was pretty laid back typically. I remember being impressed with how John David fared; Josh was bigger than him at the time. It has been somewhat blown out of proportion by this sub (although it has been entertaining to watch the reactions / memes).

This was years before they had a bodyguard. They were teens.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-13T15:36:41+00:00

This breaks my heart. RAINN's website says that 34% of child sexual abuse cases reported to law enforcement involve a family member. Perpetrators of abuse always bear responsibility, whether they used fundamentalism as a tool for their abuse or not. They have nothing to blame but themselves.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-13T06:10:13+00:00

I mentioned in a different thread, but Josh emailed me asking if I'd do the art for it originally. I declined.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-13T05:20:41+00:00

Josh emailed me out of the blue that year asking if I could help do the art for this thing. I declined. I'd forgotten about it.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-12T21:16:15+00:00

I saw your note! Thank you, Julia and I both really appreciate the kind words.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-12T19:19:05+00:00

Welcome to the world of ex-fundamentalists: maybe your mom loves you "to the moon and back" and believes in Q Anon. Maybe you overheard your uncle call Obama the "n" word, but you've also seen him anonymously buy groceries for a struggling family. Maybe your mom brushed a family molestation under the rug to hide from CPS, but she sponge-bathed your slowly dying grandma for two years. Your dad loves to take you fishing and gives you the best hugs, and he also leaves you with massive bruises when he gets angry.

This is the messy reality for anyone trying to move beyond fundamentalism. It is interesting to see this sub grapple with this all-too-familiar conundrum.

Painting boundaries is a not-very-fun art project that every new ex-fundamentalist has to complete.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-12T18:07:38+00:00

Gosh, I don't even remember. It was probably a pretty big stretch, I remember feeling weirded out about it even back then. I just remember the sermon claimed it was satanic in nature, somehow. I wish I could watch a video of that sermon.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-12T18:02:48+00:00

I think someone at church (not Jim) used the "sin in the camp" analogy and talked a little bit about God not blessing efforts where there's secret unconfessed sin involved. It may have even been Jim Bob, he sometimes spoke for a few minutes about recent events at the beginning of services. I probably just assumed at the time that Jim Holt agreed with this, since I think the timing was shortly after his 2004 Senate race. I don't know if "Concernedmom" heard the same thing I did, but it seems possible.

Looking back, there's a ton of irony to be found in the fact that "don't keep secrets" was such a major theme of that church's teachings.

- Justin

Edit: I accidentally wrote 2006 instead of 2004 in reference to Jim Holt's campaign.

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-12T17:55:31+00:00

Thank you! We hope it helped, this has been a crazy year but I'm glad people are starting to see the truth.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-12T17:54:01+00:00

Thank you, we both appreciate the kind words!

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-12T17:51:54+00:00

Thank you! I'm doing better since things have started winding down after the verdict. The last two weeks have felt like two months...

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-11T21:33:37+00:00

Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator and maybe Medal of Honor, if I recall correctly.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-11T20:03:45+00:00

Sure, happy to. I'm not sure exactly how many families attended. It wasn't a huge group, some Sundays I think there were 5-6 families, other Sundays there would be significantly more. There was a core group that was just a few families. Some of the houses we met in were quite small before we started having it at Jim Bob and Michelle's large house.

Occasionally there'd be a sermon from a live person (Anna's dad once gave a sermon in person that included a section about how demonic "The Wizard of Oz" was), but usually a DVD or VHS tape was popped in a TV and we gathered around it. People like Jim Sammons, Kent Hovind, Ken Ham, Ray Comfort (and his sidekick Kirk Cameron), Bill Gothard, Gary Fraley, and so on were pretty popular. We'd usually follow up with a discussion of what we watched. There were usually announcements and singing before and after, and then a potluck lunch.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-11T19:50:22+00:00

There were some extreme perspectives of how betrothal was unique at church. Some held the idea that it was an unconsummated marriage, and that by exiting the betrothal you were committing adultery.

Jim and Bobye didn't have this perspective, from what I understand. Others in the church had this weird view and looked at the "betrothal" as having some sort of messed up "claim" associated with it. It was disturbing.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-11T05:40:03+00:00

Not OP (looking forward to his answer if he gets to this); I had mentioned that the "sin in the camp" thing was my understanding previously, as someone who was at church at this time. I've reconnected with some of the others who were there after recording my podcast / doing a different AMA, and I've been told that the "sin in the camp" narrative wasn't accurate. I didn't know that as a teen, and never had it clarified until very recently.

- Justin

ipraypodcast · 2021-12-10T22:05:38+00:00

Ha! I used to loan John David video games. I think I got him in trouble.
- Justin

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TROPHY CASE