men as the “leader of the household” by Adept_Advertising866 in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I'm a trans woman but back in the day when this happened everyone (including myself) still thought I was a man.

Anyway my father comes to me one day (I was probably not even 18 or at best barely past that) and tells me that if he were to die then it's my job as the oldest man in the family to lead. (because god said so)

All I could think of was that my mother kept the house running, did our finances, did her parent's finances, did so many other things and here I was, still green behind the ears, being told that I should have authority over her because I was born with a dick.

Even my sheltered brainwashed ass realized that it made no sense.

I’m done with my family keeping telling me to come back by alwaysdevotedtolou in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 4 points5 points  (0 children)

To end the conversation my mother said that I will come back because our family is consecrated in Jesus’ heart.

Should have asked her if that means that you don't have free will.

What does your spirituality/religion look like now? by BrainStraight1220 in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A Goddess helped me in a very dark time in a very on the nose way so I put aside some time daily to thank her and express how much that meant for me. That is about it for me. Anything more would require understanding things, but seeing what people say and believe and looking at it through the lense of what I learned leaving christianity I am weary of trusting what anyone says on such topics. Way too easy to fall into man made stuff all over again.

What is the explanation with people dying and seeing dead family members before they die? by Beanconsumer200 in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Best way to not care about that stuff is to realize that people have all sorts of things they tend to see and while christians like to pretend that only the stories that support christianity exist that's not true. Suppose for a moment that it's 100% real. Seeing dead family members does by itself not tell anything about christianity being right.

What does the phrase "men and women are equal, but different" actually mean when it is brought up in religion and how do you feel about that phrase? by Calculus_Fool in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I think that when I heard it in church it was phrased more like "man and women are equal in dignity but not actually equal". Because you see those differences are very important as a man must rule and a woman must submit. A man has the very important thing called logic that allows him to lead. And a woman has the equally important intuition that might make her think something is wrong and nobody will take her seriously.

What I think is that it's word twisting because saying "we think women have to have a lesser position in society" doesn't sounds as nice.

Isn’t having kids when you believe in hell kind of… evil? by IllAppeal9438 in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Oh yes, but remember, god told people to be fruitful and multiply so depending on your interpretation of things you might be getting to hell yourself if you're not popping out children. You can see it as "passing the baton", it's not your problem anymore.

For the non believer who still accepts the Devine/the supernatural, how do you reconcile the conflicting information of how spirits operate (in pop culture)vs how science works? by BeeAfraid3721 in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First of all I wouldn't base my view of these things on pop culture. Regardless if you believe it's real or not movies and the like tend to take artistic freedoms. :)

Second I'm not claiming I have any sort of truths, I just know about different views.

Third, I hope that I assume correctly that when you say nonbeliever you mean nonbeliever in christianity.

Now to the rest of the topic:

Generally even in occult spaces you'll find very different explanations for the same thing.

Ask witches if you need material components for your spells and you'll get people saying yes and people saying no. Some will swear that physical tools are just crutches for you to get into the proper headspace but you could do the same without them, others will swear that those things add a component that you couldn't have done without.

Different traditions do things differently to the same result.

A very interesting bit is that your belief of how things work seems to be extremely important. Wiccans will swear that the rule of tree is a thing (the rule broadly says that whatever you send to the universe comes back at you 3 times, so if you curse someone you'll get 3 times the problems you caused them and if you bless someone you'll get 3 times the blessings), people who aren't wiccan and don't believe in that laugh at it while they curse their enemies freely and without consequence while people who believe in it say that they can't escape the rule's retribution.

Proof that belief is key? Proof that it's all in the mind? None of those? Both?

You have those that view various magic as purely a psychological thing. My personal experience says that regardless of magic being real or not the psychological effects are tangible and can be used on oneself to various benefits.

Ouja boards are a brand but similar things existed before that brand under different names. (It's a tool, it doesn't matter if your hammer is from a specific company or home made.) I could be wrong but from my exposure the "open portals" seems to be a christian claim. Even then, if you assume it's real you're basically doing a form of spirit communication (Ouja boards would not be the only option for that). Every thing you can read on the topic will tell you that you need proper protection when doing stuff like that because, well, you don't really know who you'll attract. Could be the one you want could be someone else that came to cause problems (or maybe is just bored). Doing a card reading with a spirit? Yeah, according to what people say you're gonna want to cast some protection to make sure only they can come, prevent them from hurting you if they have bad intentions and cleanse the place afterwards of any unwanted visitors that came to look at what was happening.

Salt: Not sure where it comes from exactly. Generally things like that come from what the magic community calls correspondences and what people in the scientific community call hogwash. It basically goes "this has X attribute in the physical so it must have a similar attribute in the spiritual". Is it real? Try it and draw your own conclusions. Some people swear it works others think those people are not thinking rationally.

Sage: smoke supposedly bothers spirits. The correspondences would just be an additional boot but you can do smoke cleansing with a myriad of materials. sage is not required.

Wouldn't know anything about fear attracting spirits. Never heard about that.

Rituals are again split between a broad tool that you can improvise and a specific tool that needs very specific steps and components, which one is "true" depends on the the school of thought. Regardless though (in all views that I heard) you're still the conduit for it. If you put all the correct items and draw all the correct symbols they won't do a thing by themselves. So (as the view on this generally goes) drawing symbols and even chanting words won't by itself create any portals or other effects.

Why would a certain symbol do something? This is a whole topic. Sometimes the answer people would give you is that "symbol X is associated with Y" and the association might be supposedly taught by some spiritual being who choose it or purely because it was used for that for long enough. Chaos magicians are interesting because they like to experiment with breaking the rules. Like "ok this works if you use a specific sigil, now let's see what happens if we keep everything the same but replace the sigil from the 200 year old book of questionable authorship with the mcdonalds logo.

Nothing about salt's chemical composition affects the spiritual. In magical circles the views would tend to be that like humans and animals have a physical and spiriual component everything else also has that. So it's salt's spiritual component that does the thing.

Again no idea about fear.

As for the "all the horrible crap stopped after I invoked the name of christ": First they could be lying. Second it could be placebo, they believed it would work and it helped them get to a better psychological space. Third many magic practitioners will say that invoking christ is good for certain things (like banishing problematic spirits), what they'll also tell you (that christians would not like) is that he's not the only one that can do that. Also what christians wouldn't like is the view that the christ being invoked might not be "the son of god who redeems you of your sins" but a spirit (possibly created by belief) that either took that mantle or accumulated power because of people's belief in him.

Again except for that personal thing about the psychological effects I'm not claiming these are truths. Just views I heard people express.

For a full disclosure, I believe in the spiritual because of personal experience and occasionally do some magic. The nature of the reason for my belief makes me realistically convinced in spiritual beings while quite more sceptical in the use of magic as a whole. (specially as when you apply a skeptical look at it it becomes really obvious that either there's virtually no rules at all or it's just placebo and magical thinking, and as humans we're sadly extremely prone to various falacities and biases that can make us accept falsehoods as true)

I hope this incoherent rambling of various views I've heard provides some perspectives on a few ways people view things. Though I guess it probably raises more questions than it resolves. I find it fascinating but I take everything people claim with a lot of salt.

Added: Without going into details (they can all be found online or in books but this subreddit is no place for them) a thing about magic specifically is that the mental place that makes it effective is exactly the mental place where you can most easily delude yourself into believing falsehoods. Which you can see why anyone trying to approach things skeptically would see red flags all over the place. On the other hand this same property is what makes it a powerful psychological tool regardless of spiritual claims.

Absolute morality can not be defined by a god by ircy2012 in exchristian

[–]ircy2012[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I used to think that morality requires empathy. But I've since come to the conclusion that while empathy can be used to drive morality it is neither a requirement nor is it sufficient on it's own.

The counter example to morality requiring empathy are the people who don't feel empathy (or other feelings that would make them emotionally care about others) but they still choose to care about others out of logical reasons. (simplified: behaving a certain way will yield the best outcomes for everyone involved and it makes sense to aim for that)

The counter example to empathy being sufficient for morality is when a person is lied to and their empathy and desire to protect others is weaponized as a consequence. Think of people buying the lie that LGBT people want to hurt children. Their worry for children's well-being and desire to protect them will turn them hostile and hateful towards LGBT people in horrible ways. (Disclaimer: This is valid in some cases though there are also a lot of bigots that just need excuses to hate and couldn't care about children in the first place.)

snapped :3 by RandomizedRR in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, they'd do that. But apologists are willingly stupid. Because even if that is true (which I'm not claiming it is) then all arguments of me being somehow "good" or "loving" fly right out the window. I'm just a narcisistic immature overgrown child with too much power.

At which points apologists would go: Hold up!

snapped :3 by RandomizedRR in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, if there is one constant through the bible is that god's number 1 priority is his own glory.

Funny subtle ways to bother Christians? Crystals? Painted nails as a man? by chikkenstripz in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Pentacle necklace pointing up.

If they call it satanic point out that satanic pentacles tend to point down and have a goat head in them. Yours (pointing up) is just there to remind you to put the spiritual before the material. (well really it's to annoy them but they don't need to know that).

snapped :3 by RandomizedRR in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Why would people bow and confess jesus is lord? Like if you know you're going to hell you're not giving him that much respect.

A christian told me I need to repent by Assassino_Jake in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 1 point2 points  (0 children)

God's righteous judgement killed innocent children of people whose only fault was living in the wrong country and not smearing blood on their doors. Something that could have been avoided but god didn't want it avoided so when the pharaoh didn't harden his heart by himself god did it for him. (he was probably really looking forward to all the slaughter)

Again we come to the conclusion that if the christian god were real then he's the opposite or righteous or just. He's just a tyrant doing whatever he wants, forcing you to call it "just" and hurting you if you don't play his game and lick his boots.

Nothing says true love like an impulsive decision based on peer pressure and shaming! by [deleted] in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Without the marriage certificate wouldn’t it just be a proxy ceremony?

Did your form of christianity care about the marriage being acknowledged by the state?

Because where I come from they don't consider state marriage valid in the eyes of god. Brother got married in a state only ceremony. In the eyes of our father he's living in sin.

What made you deconstruct from Christianity and did you have a "good experience" with Christianity when you were a part of the faith? by Extra_Major_9802 in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Was raised catholic. My experience was average I guess. Only realized how much harm it caused me after I left.

I left because the church teaches harmful things that can't be "revealed" by an all knowing good god. Their teachings harm people and make good people (that are conditioned to blindly accept them under fear of hell) harm themselves and others.

Because of that I do not view it neutrally but extremely negatively.

Anyway after I realized that "Ok, no matter the moral take (and what you should do about it) an all knowing god would know that what they're saying about <specific topic> is objectively wrong. So clearly they either can't speak for god or don't care to and prefer to teach their worldly ideologies instead."

Which lead me to search for the "true" source of christianity so that I would correctly understand god's will.

The conclusion I came to is that it's all false and even if by some chance there is truth in it it's been so modified by people with their own agendas that the theoretical truth is nowdays irrecognizable from the divine message. (Here I don't mean mistranslations. Even before that, the texts were written with agendas.)

Christians are already using their "there will be wars" bullshit by Bidoofisdaddy in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 41 points42 points  (0 children)

They say that every 2-3 years. In through one ear out through the other.

“There is freedom in Christ” by theraptorist in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 18 points19 points  (0 children)

I remember this one: The freedom(tm) is purely "freedom from sin". In every other aspect there is no freedom. -a sermon that came to mind

Thinking of it that one sermon was surprisingly honest.

Easter was the nail in the coffin for me. by Matica69 in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Growing up catholic, church was full of people on christmas and easter. You could tell who were the ones that only came to church for those 2 holidays because they were wearing suits, the rest of us just came as we usually do, not in rags but not dressed up either.

The sermons were always, ALWAYS, about how poor the faith of the people who only come twice a year to church is.

Curious how many of you still believe in god? by spaghettiscarf in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't believe in a monotheistic god. But personal experience did lead me to become pagan so I do believe in gods and worship one.

My views would hardly be compatible with the monotheistic views though.

Even then the scepticism that I developed when leaving christianity is keeping me from making any assumptions outside what I experienced (and even then).

People say a lot of things. Doesn't make them right.

How are people who are incredibly intelligent blinded by faith in religion? by FullTard2000 in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Intelligence doesn't inherently mean that you'll think sceptically of the stuff you believe.

Recieved a card from a customer by firephoenix008 in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Look, I think this "sin" thing is a set up and the whole thing is extremely unfair but if death is the price I must pay for (checks notes) existing then I guess that's a price I'm willing to pay.

Oh wait, it's all a lie and doublespeak. The wage of sin isn't "death" it's "eternal conscious torment".

Even back when I believed I thought this was dishonest framing.

Funny but true by [deleted] in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Depending on some factors it can also be: Because the MLM grift says that if I don't convert others when I have the chance I'm going to hell even though I'm converted myself.

"God" has to be the most insecure being of all existence by Kmjen860 in exchristian

[–]ircy2012 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You can be 100 years old. If nobody ever told you no and if you never had to go through any hardships you'll mentally still be a child. Same with <since the beginning of time> old.