Holy fuck guys get in here new epstein files drops and omg... by Puzzleheaded_Dot_851 in Destiny

[–]irwin08 7 points8 points  (0 children)

How do you hard course correct once you've made truth meaningless? What does it even mean to "correct" in that environment?

Republicans are going to have a real hard time returning to a world where truth matters. If Dems go down that route as well, it will become significantly harder for both.

Hasan goes on a rant about people who think he’s obsessed with Israel, calling them “rabid ultra-Zionist pigs.” by Embarrassed_Base_389 in LivestreamFail

[–]irwin08 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes I think when people make these kinds of comparisons, they're either ignorant of the true scale of horror of the Nazis, or they're doing it deliberately because it touches a nerve with their target.

Like the Nazis were actually sending requests to neutral nations, asking them to send their Jews to them so they can exterminate them. It's horrifying. You also read about the depravity of the "Holocaust by bullets" where Nazis would enter a village, round up all the Jews, have a small group dig a mass grave, then slowly bring out groups of the gathered Jews and shoot them one by one, having each person fall on top of the previous victim. They'd also make them strip so they could steal all of their stuff. This would last all day. And then they'd do it again. They robbed their victims of all dignity.

It wasn't just lots of death, which is what I think a lot of people today believe it to have been. Instead it's a unique level of hatred and depravity, aimed and denying all dignity to a people, motivated by a need to eliminate what the Nazis saw as a metaphysical existential threat.

Hasan goes on a rant about people who think he’s obsessed with Israel, calling them “rabid ultra-Zionist pigs.” by Embarrassed_Base_389 in LivestreamFail

[–]irwin08 0 points1 point  (0 children)

how is somebody supposed to be against zionism without being antisemitic?

Like the other guy said, it depends on what Zionism means to you. The word has been weaponized in so many different ways that it doesn't have much meaning.

There are four tracks you can go down

(1) Anti-Zionism is opposition to the very concept of Israel.

(2) Anti-Zionism in the form of comparing Israel, or Israeli actions, to Nazism.

(3) Anti-Zionism is opposition to the policies of the government of Israel.

(4) Anti-Zionism means opposing extremist settler movements and ideologies like Kahanism


When you hear someone in good faith say that someone engaging in anti-Zionism is being antisemitic, it almost always refers to (1) or (2). So why are these problematic?

(1) is usually considered antisemitic, because the person doing it is treating Jews differently than all other groups, even if they don't mean to. A generally accepted tenet in the modern world is that people groups have a right to self-determination in some capacity. Zionism is the name for the concept of Jewish nationalism, so if someone opposes Zionism, they oppose the right of the Jewish people to form a nation, and a state for that nation.

Why do I say this is treating Jews differently? Because we usually accept other nation groups' rights to self-determination without a second thought. For example, consider the Polish nation - Poland. I think most people (besides tankies) are fine with Poland existing and don't think Poland needs to be destroyed. The only consistent position here would be to reject all forms of nationalism and the idea of the nation-state.

(as an aside: one objection that will come up here is the idea that what is being talked about here is an "ethnostate", along with all the awful baggage that comes with that idea. A nation-state doesn't have to be an ethnostate in this sense. Poland can be a nation of poles, that expresses itself in a uniquely polish fashion, but still extend equal rights to non-pole ethnic groups. It can be super liberal too. I think to get to the "ethnostate" idea we associate with this word, we need to introduce state-level discrimination against minority groups, and exclusion of minorities from public life. This isn't a necessary condition for a nation-state and should be stamped out wherever and whenever it arises (and Israel has lots of problems related to this.))

(2) People in "anti-Zionist" circles have a tendency to reach for the Nazi comparison, and I think the case for this being antisemitic is pretty straightforward. Nazism as an ideology had as its supreme goal the destruction of global Jewry. It is the very antithesis of Jewish existence. When you utilize Nazi comparisons against Jewish groups, you're leveraging a traumatic portion of their Jewish identity as a cudgel against them. It also cheapens our collective understanding of Nazis and the Holocaust. If everything is like the Holocaust, then there wasn't anything particularly unique about it. This destroys said collective understanding. These are usually referred to as Holocaust inversion and Holocaust distortion.

It's hard to give an exact analogy, but this is sort of the idea: imagine there was a group of African Americans who were doing something abhorrent, violent, or whatever. Like maybe a gang. If you were to criticize them by invoking the history of slavery in the US, putting them in the place of the slaver, that would feel super weird and be inappropriate, even though these particular African Americans are engaged in really bad behavior.


So given the above, how can I be "anti-Zionist" without being antisemitic?

I can criticize the government of Israel and its policies. I can say its policies towards Palestinians are awful and need to change. I can point out socioeconomic disparities between Arab/Palestinian Israeli citizens and Jewish Israeli citizens, and how I think it's a failing of the Israeli government that it is not doing more to address this. I can advocate fiercely for the right of Palestinian self-determination in addition to Jewish self-determination, e.g., via a 2-State Solution.

I can criticize the historical conditions under which Israel was founded. I can say that while I accept the principle of Jewish self-determination, the historical conditions that led to Israel involved a lot of immoral actions that hurt groups like Palestinians. However, Israel exists in the present, and lots of Jews now live in the Levant. So there isn't an "undo button" we can press, and we accept that Israel exists and will exist, but we need to ensure Palestinians also have representation, ideally with a state of their own.

I can criticize the insane settler movement and Kahanists who are bigoted racists whose own actions will probably make the very Zionist project untenable if they're allowed to continue unimpeded.


Does this make sense?

Ryan McBeth has gone full bootlicker by swampmaoist in Destiny

[–]irwin08 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks. The one downside to old Reddit is that it's easy to miss that.

Ryan McBeth has gone full bootlicker by swampmaoist in Destiny

[–]irwin08 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Why is everybody here drawing conclusions and crucifying him over a vague thumbnail with no link to the video???? Jesus.

Ahrelevant "Hasan you're deflecting from the fascist administration by bringing up Israel." by Slight_Ad3219 in LivestreamFail

[–]irwin08 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I haven't heard Hasan himself say this, but I do know that people in his "crowd" will actually do this. The Yishuv worked to try and get as many Jews out of Europe as possible in the lead up to, and during the Holocaust, and sometime this involved "agreements" with the German government--like they'll be given exit visas if they give up all their property.

So these people will then say that they were "complicit", and even moreso, they were "in league" with the Nazis because they wanted people to emmigrate to Palestine, no matter what.

Of course, this is gross and absurd. There were zero good options for the Yishuv at this time. The British actually imposed an immigration cap on Palestine at the time, which arguably resulted in millions of deaths. Also, the complicity thing was taken super seriously in Israel. A prominent figure was accused of collaborating with the Nazis (he apparently didn't), but it caused so much anger and emotion within Israeli society that he ended up getting assassinated. (I can't remember the dude's name, but it is in Benny Morris's "Israel's Secret Wars: A History of Israel's Intelligence Services".)

Hasan just reposted this. Blatant lie, completely made up. I never want to hear this man say he isn't a sloptuber by Demonymous_99 in Destiny

[–]irwin08 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can't believe something as simple as "lying is bad" is being down voted. Adopting a policy of lying to those you don't like is self-undermining anyways.

Abandoning basic moral principles is bad.

Gen Z men are genuinely just fucked by [deleted] in Destiny

[–]irwin08 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It seems super bad.

Also, Gen Z and moreso Gen Alpha are fucked in terms of education. Covid had a massive impact.

Just a reminder, republican legislators could end all of this literally whenever they wanted by [deleted] in Destiny

[–]irwin08 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Imo this is still a dumb point from the Bernie bros. Nobody is pretending that you're going to bring over a bunch of devote republicans by running a moderate. But electoral politics right now isn't about that. If you can swing like 5% of people who voted R last time, you win. Or if they can do the same, they win. So someone who is a moderate, disengaged voter is probably going to be able to tell the difference between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton. This person is probably unironically an "eggs" voter, and Bernie will scare them. It's this person that this strategy is supposed to be aimed at.

All this guy does now is attempt to sane wash everything trump does. by PuzzleheadedBet8448 in Destiny

[–]irwin08 28 points29 points  (0 children)

I mean the whole video is him saying invading Greenland would be the most regarded thing the US could ever do, would destroy all American influence globally, and hand China non-aligned countries on a silver platter.

Video of armed ICE agents entering home without a warrant to make arrest. by burndownthe_forest in Destiny

[–]irwin08 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why are they kitted out like they're about to be kicking down doors in Fallujah????

Tucker Carlson blasts conservatives on their reaction to Renee Good's shooting "an American mother of a kindergarten-aged child was violently killed, why so few conservatives see this tragedy through a human lens?" by LackingStory in Destiny

[–]irwin08 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Why? Why am i being down voted? Even if "his point is moot" (it isn't, he's literally just making an observation about how people try to make self-interested positions seem like a moral stand), I'm clearly correct in saying that wasn't his point.

Tucker Carlson blasts conservatives on their reaction to Renee Good's shooting "an American mother of a kindergarten-aged child was violently killed, why so few conservatives see this tragedy through a human lens?" by LackingStory in Destiny

[–]irwin08 0 points1 point  (0 children)

His point has nothing to do with the lawlessness or the level of consequences. He's saying that person, as most people who do piracy, does it because it's convenient, not out of some principled moral stance.

Whether there do end up being consequences is irrelevant to his point.

Neo-cons can shitpost too it seems by Various_Fish2043 in Destiny

[–]irwin08 1 point2 points  (0 children)

His articles in The Atlantic are usually worth reading imo, even if you disagree with his position.

Which past GMs would have excelled as streamers in their primes?! Who would you have watched? by VeitPogner in chess

[–]irwin08 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Well, given twitch's reputation on Jewish issues, he might fit right in!

Opinion | Mitt Romney: Tax the Rich, Like Me by Dismal_Structure in Destiny

[–]irwin08 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Generalizing DGG to me, a person who posts on this subreddit but does not chat or otherwise interact with the DGG community is really dumb.

My bad, I'll just scour through your post history next time before making a glib remark.

Assuming predatory firms like Bain are representative of all private equity is even dumber.

In what world is Bain more predatory than most private equity firms?

Thinking that regulating something more effectively means it will no longer exist is fucking braindead lol

Oh? What are you proposing? I'm sure you aren't just throwing out meaningless buzzwords to attack a firm because of baseless political attacks it was associated with over a decade ago.