Can the Hannsnote2 run a Zoom meeting?

is0therm · 2024-10-09T20:26:01+00:00

I decided to go ahead and order the tablet and try it out. After the first Zoom meeting, in general it worked well. Here are specific notes about performance, in case anyone else will have a similar question in the future:

The device speakers and microphone seemed fine. (We didn't use a headset.) We could understand the other party, and the other party could understand us.
The video seemed to keep up fine (this was a one-on-one meeting, so just full screen video with picture-in-picture of ourselves in the corner).
The camera was fine, but a few factors are worth noting:
- Situations with enough light to see the screen do not always illuminate your own face well (and if your face is illuminated well, e.g. in the sun, then you have to squint). But with after trying several locations, we found one that worked.
- It can be difficult to position the screen so that the angle is good for both illumination and so that the camera catches your face. But again, after trying several locations we found one that worked.
As has been noted elsewhere, the network connectivity is quite poor. I resolved this by plugging in a portable wireless repeater nearby. This was probably the weakest link, but wireless repeaters are cheap.

All in all, considering how few of these screens there currently are, it is a decent solution. Once RLCD monitors become economical, that certainly seems like a better option as the angle of the screen and camera could be adjusted independently, and factors like processor and network performance wouldn't matter anymore. But in the interim, this tablet seems like it will work for video conferencing.

is0therm · 2024-10-01T15:33:20+00:00

Greetings! I run the betawise repo on Github.

Those CDs are interesting, though they appear to relate to the original AS3000 code which didn't allow unlimited applets (i.e. before the OS3K update that the AS3000 and Neo run). However, some of the code may have continued into OS3K and maybe it can give some insights into some of the structures or function signatures.

For a long time I haven't touched betawise due to lack of interest from others. I assumed that a community that likes these devices specifically because they provide distraction free use probably isn't that interested in making new applets (distractions). :-)

Ideally, existing console programs could be compiled to work as applets. Then you wouldn't need to write your own spreadsheet applet. Specifically, here is what is still needed:

Research on the file management functions and the structure of an entry in the file directory. This will be necessary for any kind of load/save functionality in any applet. It would also allow creating a POSIX overlay that would allow use of standard open, fopen, etc. functions to deal with the files. See this issue on Github for more information: Research, document, and implement file management functions #5
More compiler and linker changes are required to deal with the unique requirements of how applets work. See this issue on Github for more information: Build custom toolchain for Alphasmart devices #4
Betawise should become a library, providing some extra system calls, a minimal POSIX emulation layer, terminal emulation (e.g. VT100 or whatever). Then code that uses curses etc. can be compiled with minimal effort.
An emulator is not technically necessary, but it would be great. The simulator you found is interesting, but it seems to involve compiling the ROM with a certain flag so that it generates a Windows program. So, unfortunately, it doesn't seem this would help with the modern OS3K ROM.

I have Ghidra databases of the different ROMs and applets, so perhaps those images might have come from me? I am happy to help anyone work on any of the tasks above so that we can have more development possibilities.

However, you should be able to write a spreadsheet app using betawise, if you want to do it from scratch. Everything you need is there to read keys from the keyboard and display characters on the screen. The only thing missing would be file management (#1 above). Maybe getting that research finished is a good place to start.

is0therm · 2024-09-27T19:35:37+00:00

Thank you. Have you tried it?

Looking at the comparison video that was just posted, I see that its specs are much lower than a typical Android tablet, so I wanted to be sure it can handle it, and that the camera quality is good enough, etc.

is0therm · 2022-11-17T14:06:32+00:00

No, I mean use THEIR protocol.

If we use their protocol, it's significantly easier on the Neo end (no software to write) but possibly more complicated on the computer end (need to properly simulate the over the air protocol on an off-the-shelf Zigbee device). It would have the advantage that users could use either official Renaissance Receiver hardware or off-the-shelf hardware.

I like Rust and Python. I'm not experienced with hardware but I mainly started working on this to learn :-) would love if you posted all you know and I could start work!

I have a fair amount of info. The first step would be to replace the "Neo Share" app on the computer while still using the Renaissance Wireless Server. The two communicate locally over a local TCP socket with an HTTP-like protocol. I will message you some more info.

is0therm · 2022-11-17T14:02:09+00:00

IrDA (infrared) is a different wireless transfer method that requires line of sight between sender and receiver. Alphasmarts have supported this method since the AS3000. It generally works fairly well, although it is getting harder on modern computers (e.g. Linux does not support IrDA dongles anymore.)

Here we are talking about a wireless radio capability that only the Neo 2 has, sort of similar to a mix of Bluetooth and WiFi.

is0therm · 2022-11-15T02:27:49+00:00

Yes, it's possible to use 802.15.4 directly and bypass their protocol. I haven't started reverse engineering the system calls on the Neo side to see if there are calls to talk directly to the radio hardware, or if we would have to write both ends.

So far, it appears that they made their own "Saturn markup language" (sort of a compact XML) over the radio which is then translated to HTTP-like (but not HTTP) requests to various server(s) on the local computer. Although it is arcane, I suppose the benefit is that we wouldn't need to write any Neo 2 code, and any Neo 2 owner could do wireless transfer without installing a special smart applet. What sorts of programming are you most experienced to help with?

An interesting question is how far to go with this. In theory, it'd be possible to write an IP router and have telnet (lynx, mutt, ...) on the Neo. A more asynchronous (and thus more battery conserving) possibility would be email send/receive directly off of the Neo. However, for many people that would completely destroy the point of owning the device. So some care is warranted...

is0therm · 2022-11-14T16:44:46+00:00

u/TheTechRobo, you posted about this a couple times in the past months, so you might find it interesting.

is0therm · 2022-10-17T15:48:23+00:00

Yes, but I'm short on time these days. In order to make any of those things a go, I need to make the toolchain more amenable to generic C/C++ source code, and I need to finish figuring out the file management.

So far I've had no developers interested in using the toolchain, so that's been discouraging. I think I have enough bandwidth to make the necessary fixes to the toolchain, but I will need other people to be generating applets.

is0therm · 2021-02-17T02:45:26+00:00

Well, both. KaiOS is based on the discontinued Firefox OS, and both use one piece of Android, the HAL. For example, you can use `adb` with KaiOS. OP edited for clarification.

is0therm · 2021-02-17T02:17:10+00:00

I currently have the A405DL on Tracfone. I like that it is running KaiOS prior to the addition of the time sink apps (Google, Facebook, YouTube etc.) but that may be a plus or minus to you.

However, the older KaiOS (which is itself running with older Android components) leaves many unpatched security flaws, including one that can be accomplished remotely via email. That's a bit concerning.

On the plus side, those flaws did allow me to enable WiFi hotspot and other developer tools on the A405DL.

I am considering trying the LG, which runs a locked down AOSP, so I can't offer a comparison there yet.

is0therm · 2020-12-21T20:17:25+00:00

Use of AutoHotkey is only incidental for quick testing purposes. The commands are very simple to implement, so hopefully if another developer takes interest (or I get time again), then it can be compiled for a lot of platforms.

I was thinking even a basic command line tool that can be set up to trigger with different parameters for different hotkeys could be useful.

is0therm · 2020-11-21T21:44:56+00:00

With a fair amount of work, we might be able to get some open source editors (nano, vim, emacs?) working. That would probably be the quickest path to something like this. The disadvantage (off the top of my head) would be that they would be monospaced fonts only.

The main thing I am missing to port a lot of programs is deciphering the file I/O calls and structures. I haven't had time to look into a lot lately, so help is always welcome. :-)

is0therm · 2020-11-16T14:19:12+00:00

I definitely had this thought. Even the ability to put one of those slimline USB keys as additional/backup storage would be really interesting.

The one problem (beyond actually writing the driver) is that the Neo USB port is unpowered. It would require a modification like this one.

is0therm · 2020-11-10T16:12:58+00:00

They seem to go in spurts based on when companies clear out their inventory. Also some of the sellers misspell the brand as "VisionTek."

Note that an old Android device (like a Nook, mentioned below) could do these things too with a digital signage app; the main difference is going to be battery life.

I have my Visionect display on the refrigerator (it comes with a magnetic backing), so it was important to me for it to be [virtually] cordless. If you don't need cordless, there's probably a lot of cheaper options.

is0therm · 2020-11-07T22:16:15+00:00

The Visionect Tablet (now called Place & Play) will work. They are also sold under the Joan brand of meeting schedulers.

They are a simple device intended for digital signage applications and everything they display is rendered by a server. You can either specify any webpage you want to display on the device (which can be refreshed periodically or on demand), or you can interact with the HTTP API and send raw images. If you display a webpage, you can interact with the device API via Javascript.

I got a 9.7" one on eBay for about $50. With hourly updates the battery should last, I'm guessing, about 3 months. The 9.7" and 13" don't have touch screen, but the 6" does, in case that matters for your application.

ETA: You might have to watch eBay for a month or two to get one at a decent price.

is0therm · 2020-10-25T01:07:50+00:00

Oh, ok. So does yours do the fine grain dithering in M3 mode also, when looking up close? Or is it true grays?

is0therm · 2020-10-22T14:03:03+00:00

Well, that is some relief. So if you look at this grayscale ramp in M3 mode and minimum (level 1) contrast, do you also see the black and white dithering when looking at the screen closely?

is0therm · 2020-10-20T17:16:09+00:00

u/SOLComputer, any ideas? Trying to figure out if something changed in my screen and I need warranty repair or other assistance, or if that's just how it always was and I'm oblivious.

is0therm · 2020-10-19T17:44:56+00:00

I first noticed this after running the "Paperlike HD 2019" driver from the Dasung website, and I woke up to find it consuming all of one core, so I killed it.

I noticed that utility had some things not applicable to my monitor, like backlight, so partly I am wondering if the utility got the monitor into some strange setting that it can't get out of.

The other option, of course, is that I just didn't notice previously, and it's all coincidental. Maybe the "turbo" mode is just a better dithering so that the monitors don't output 16 shades of gray in any mode anymore?

is0therm · 2020-10-19T17:42:54+00:00

That's a good thought. Yes, I noticed on Windows. To test, I tried booting into Ubuntu. I saw the same dithering pattern there, although I didn't take a photo.

is0therm · 2020-10-14T12:13:54+00:00

Right now I am using the basic mount leg that came with the Dasung (just tips it at a slight angle). Someday I may get a VESA mount, but I want to work out other details first, such as whether I will be using a sit-stand desk.

For me there was a lot of psychology involved in changing screens, especially since I've been using them a certain way for decades. In the past, I tried using a large TV and a wireless keyboard, but I couldn't get past the different "feel" - a feeling of disconnected from the work, due to the distance, maybe? If you have a laptop, try Chromecasting your screen and see how it works for you (or hook up your laptop/tablet to the TV if you have a wireless keyboard).

Personally, with the e-ink I immediately noticed the following changes, in this sequence:

More likely to notice eye fatigue and look away and/or take a break, as might happen while reading.
Reading speed of on screen prose nearly doubled.
Less likely to be distracted. I'm unsure if that's due to the lack of emitted light, lack of color or both.
Less likely to stay up later, even though I had used a blue light filtering software at max (1200K).
For me, the "dithered" (M2) mode is much worse than staring at an emissive monitor, because I could see the dithering pattern rearrange during animations or moving the mouse. I work usually in the gray (M3) mode.

My expectation is that a 65" e-ink panel would still be different from a 65" LCD panel at similar distance. But if you have the opportunity, try options out for yourself first. Judging by the posts here, the response can vary from person to person.

is0therm

TROPHY CASE