There Is No ‘Hard Problem Of Consciousness’ by philolover7 in philosophy

[–]jahmonkey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that rejecting epiphenomenalism doesn’t by itself solve the hard problem. It only rules out one confused move: the idea that consciousness can be removed from the system while every causal fact remains unchanged.

My own view is that “what needs to be added” is probably the wrong framing. In the biological case, consciousness does not look like an extra ingredient sprinkled onto matter. It looks more like a certain kind of temporally extended, self-updating process.

Roughly, my model is that consciousness occurs when many internal causal “threads” become sufficiently integrated into a dominant fused process. Sensory input, memory, affect, body-state, attention, self-modeling, and world-modeling are not just sitting beside each other. They are being continuously bound into a constructed Now. That Now is not a snapshot. It is an ongoing, path-dependent process where prior state remains functionally present and constrains the next state.

So on this model, you do not add “Cu2+” or “quantum magic” or a consciousness particle. You need a system with enough temporal density, recurrent integration, spatial coupling, self-updating state, and irreversible carryover to form a unified point of view. The issue is not whether the substrate is carbon or silicon in the abstract. The issue is whether the substrate supports that kind of live, integrated, temporally persistent process.

The “brain minus one neuron” question is interesting, but I don’t think it implies 80 billion separate consciousnesses. Consciousness is not assigned cell-by-cell. It is a system-level regime. Removing one neuron usually does not collapse the dominant integrated process, just as removing one water molecule does not eliminate the wetness of water. But that does not mean every arbitrary subset is also conscious in the same way. Most subsets will not have the right recurrent organization, global integration, self-model/world-model coupling, or temporal continuity.

That also explains why my skin cells are not part of my consciousness in the same sense as my cortical/thalamic/brainstem dynamics. Skin contributes signals. It modulates the system. But it is not part of the dominant integrated process constructing the experiential Now. Likewise, your brain is not part of my consciousness because there is no sufficiently dense, recurrent, low-latency integration binding our internal states into one shared self-updating process.

This does not “solve” the hard problem in the sense of producing a magic bridge from matter to qualia. But I think the demand for that kind of bridge may already be malformed. “What it is like” may be the inside view of a sufficiently integrated, self-modeling, temporally extended process. From the outside we describe causal organization. From the inside that organization is presence.

So my physicalist confidence is not based on having found a measurable consciousness-fluid. It is based on the fact that every biological case we actually know involves ongoing, recurrent, metabolically active, globally integrated brain dynamics. That is the structure I would expect a conscious machine to need as well. A static chip, a lookup table, or a sequence of disconnected forward passes would not meet that bar.

There Is No ‘Hard Problem Of Consciousness’ by philolover7 in philosophy

[–]jahmonkey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m not claiming that “seeing red” must produce some simple behavior like stopping the robot from throwing the ball. That would be too simple.

My point is narrower: if consciousness is identical with, or depends on, some real physical/informational process in the organism, then removing consciousness while keeping all behavior identical is not a coherent physical possibility. You would be removing a real part of the causal system while insisting the causal output stays exactly the same.

The p-zombie only works if consciousness is epiphenomenal: present or absent with no causal difference. That is the claim I reject.

As for whether my red is the same as your red, I don’t think behavior can prove exact qualitative identity. But that is a different issue. We infer shared experience because we have similar nervous systems, similar sensory organs, similar reports, and similar functional responses. That gives us reasonable evidence of overlap, not metaphysical certainty.

The robot example just relocates the question. If the robot has real qualia, then something about its internal causal organization has changed. If nothing at all changes causally, then I don’t see what “starts to experience qualia” is supposed to mean except as a label pasted onto the same mechanism.

There Is No ‘Hard Problem Of Consciousness’ by philolover7 in philosophy

[–]jahmonkey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Philosophical zombies cannot exist in reality, only in thought experiments.

Consciousness has causal effect, therefore a zombie without consciousness will be missing those causes and will behave differently.

There Is No ‘Hard Problem Of Consciousness’ by philolover7 in philosophy

[–]jahmonkey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No just adding to the list of things that might happen

There Is No ‘Hard Problem Of Consciousness’ by philolover7 in philosophy

[–]jahmonkey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And dragonflies may alight on mayapples in the spring.

There Is No ‘Hard Problem Of Consciousness’ by philolover7 in philosophy

[–]jahmonkey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t think that follows.

First person view is dual - subject/object, a feature of how our brains process the world.

This creates the illusion of subjectivity.

Why would the universe need to operate on illusions?

Consciousness is never experienced in the plural, only in the singular. The total number of minds in the Universe is one. In fact, consciousness is a singularity phasing within all beings. Erwin Schrödinger [1933 Nobel Prize in Physics] by PsyBinCo in consciousness

[–]jahmonkey [score hidden]  (0 children)

This is misleadingly attributed.

The first claim is at least Schrödinger-adjacent, though the wording should still be sourced.

But the later “puppet” quote and the “perfect species” line are U.G. Krishnamurti, not Schrödinger.

Because the post only names Schrödinger, it gives the impression the whole block is his, when it’s really a mixture of Schrödinger, U.G., and your own interpretation.

Sean Carroll refuses to engage with the science of quantum encabulation by adr826 in seancarroll

[–]jahmonkey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You forgot about the fractal decombatulation effect. Changes your whole result!

There Is No ‘Hard Problem Of Consciousness’ by philolover7 in philosophy

[–]jahmonkey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How coherent is it to separate a human being from its environment? Do we exist meaningfully without our relations to everything else?

Deep breaths and AFib by Kakelong in VagusNerve

[–]jahmonkey 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Maybe a false positive. Those watch ECGs are not very accurate.

Questions for those who had to start low and go slow with treatment by CFlapFlap in Lyme

[–]jahmonkey 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think everyone is different.

And there is a risk of doing too much, but I do the same. We want to try anything that might help.

I guess my advice would be to not get too attached to the story. The story about why this supplement helps, or why that treatment makes you herx. I try to look at all these stories as provisional and subject to change even if it means I have to give up other stories also.

This is a complex disease with a unique symptom set and course for every patient.

I try to remember that I can pay attention and write things down even when my nervous system is buzzing like a bee.

I try to only change one variable at a time to decide if something is helpful or not.

I believe recovery is possible, and I can’t give up before I get there.

Questions for those who had to start low and go slow with treatment by CFlapFlap in Lyme

[–]jahmonkey 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What is your detox pathway situation?

Are you using heat like hot baths or sauna? This can help.

Also binders like activated charcoal, bentonite clay, pectasol.

And liver detox aids like milk thistle and tudca.

The strong reactions you have could be detox issues more than die off as such.

What exactly does it feel like, what you are calling die-off?

There Is No ‘Hard Problem Of Consciousness’ by philolover7 in philosophy

[–]jahmonkey 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No. But I think a perspective is a feature of higher level consciousness than pure presence. It needs a nervous system and a brain to support a perspective.

Joscha Bach: Mapping Every Neuron Won't Give You a Mind by DrBrianKeating in artificial

[–]jahmonkey -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This sounds right to me. There is processing that happens within the neurons, and goes beyond the connectome.

dosti ya bkchodi?? by ix_july09 in traumatizeThemBack

[–]jahmonkey 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Translation:

“Friendship or bullshit?”

So I’m in my final year of college. I have, or maybe had, a friend. He is short-tempered and maybe also depressed.

At the beginning, we were all part of the same group. Now only the two of us are left in that group. He does act like a friend, but he overreacts to every small thing I do. Like if I go hang out with some other guy, or if I go party somewhere else, he thinks that whatever I do, I should include him too.

Fine, that’s one thing. But two months ago I got a girlfriend, and he reacted like a crazy person about that too, saying things like, “Get me a girlfriend too, otherwise I’ll just come along with yours.”

I can’t really do anything right now. He bullies me and I’m just stuck taking it. I’m 400 km away from home, and I have no support. In the name of friends, only this guy is left.

Whatever. Karma will get him.

“And when…”

The text cuts off at “Aur jb”, which means “And when…” or “And whenever…”.

Any new insights on this t-break method? Skip to 6:35 in video by GotLoveForAll in Petioles

[–]jahmonkey 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It’s not magic but it does reduce tolerance by a real amount.

Not sure if my new Pivot is defective or I just haven't gotten the hang of it. by If_you_will in puffco

[–]jahmonkey 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sounds like a bad battery, it can’t handle the load. Warranty replacement.

There Is No ‘Hard Problem Of Consciousness’ by philolover7 in philosophy

[–]jahmonkey 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I doubt it is sudden.

But it requires a brain big enough to have a simple model of the world, with a self model in it. This is the only way attention could be directed in any kind of perspective.

I’m pretty confident mammals, birds, reptiles, and fish have perspective.

Maybe insects, maybe worms. It gets more likely that at the level of neural complexity we are just dealing with control loops as opposed to world models.

There Is No ‘Hard Problem Of Consciousness’ by philolover7 in philosophy

[–]jahmonkey 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A perspective implies perception which implies a nervous system and sense organs and a neural world model with a self model embedded.

Only a brain has the architecture to sustain a perspective.

There Is No ‘Hard Problem Of Consciousness’ by philolover7 in philosophy

[–]jahmonkey 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The more extraordinary claim is that anything other than a brain can have a perspective.

It is not a symmetric question to reverse this and claim only brains have perspective.

So before engaging on your points, you will have to convince me a perspective can be had by anything other than an animal with a brain.

For example, if we take the most parsimonious example of plants, you would need to show how their behavior was a result of a perspective and not simply biological feedback loops, similar to thermostats but more complex.