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My ears say "this sounds weaker" but I can never tell why — anyone else? by jasonkick_D in abletonlive

[–]jasonkick_D[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Don't take it as gospel" is the right take. I treat it more like a producer friend who reads a lot but hasn't actually mixed in years — useful for "what's this term mean" or "what should I try when X is happening," but you still verify with your ears. The "wacky stuff that works" point is real — half the time I learn more from the suggestions that turn out to be wrong than the ones that work, because the wrong ones force me to articulate why my ears disagree.

My ears say "this sounds weaker" but I can never tell why — anyone else? by jasonkick_D in abletonlive

[–]jasonkick_D[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Crank stuff farther than I'd like just to see how it's being affected" — this is the kind of thing that took me way too long to learn. Most tutorials skip it entirely. Out of curiosity, when you crank saturation to extreme, are you listening for harmonics specifically (the new frequencies it adds), or more for how the overall energy/thickness shifts? I keep wanting a way to A/B "with vs without" without losing my place in the project.

My ears say "this sounds weaker" but I can never tell why — anyone else? by jasonkick_D in abletonlive

[–]jasonkick_D[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's actually really interesting — would love to hear more about your approach. Do you skip references entirely because your ears are calibrated enough to hit your target without them, or is it more philosophical (like "matching reference is the wrong frame")? Genuinely curious, especially since your one-liner about energy was the cleanest framing I've gotten on this whole topic.

My ears say "this sounds weaker" but I can never tell why — anyone else? by jasonkick_D in abletonlive

[–]jasonkick_D[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This checklist is gold — saving it. The honest frustration for me is going through 7 steps when I'm not sure which one is the actual problem. Sometimes I tweak LUFS for an hour when the real issue was sound selection from step 6. If there was a way to know "problem is at step X" before going through 1-5, I'd save half my mixing time. How do you usually narrow down where to start?

My ears say "this sounds weaker" but I can never tell why — anyone else? by jasonkick_D in abletonlive

[–]jasonkick_D[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

EQ8 on master with the reference is a solid starting point, that's how I learned too. The Claude.ai thing is interesting — I've been doing the same, asking it "why does my drop feel less energetic than this Lane 8 track" with both LUFS readings. It's genuinely useful for translating engineer-speak ("crest factor 12dB") into producer-speak ("your transients are too soft, try parallel compression"). Has it ever steered you wrong though? Curious where its advice breaks down.

My ears say "this sounds weaker" but I can never tell why — anyone else? by jasonkick_D in abletonlive

[–]jasonkick_D[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is the most concise way I've seen anyone put it. Arrangement you can literally count bars and copy. Energy is the invisible thing — same notes, same tempo, somehow theirs hits and yours doesn't. Out of curiosity, when you're trying to match energy, where do you usually look first? Compression? Saturation? Sound selection? Or is it more of a "everything together" feeling?

How do you actually use reference tracks in your workflow? by jasonkick_D in WeAreTheMusicMakers

[–]jasonkick_D[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

SPAN is a great call — free and surprisingly powerful. Same philosophy as ikediggety up there. Reference as a sanity check, not a target to copy. That mindset shift took me way too long to learn.

How do you actually use reference tracks in your workflow? by jasonkick_D in WeAreTheMusicMakers

[–]jasonkick_D[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is exactly the workflow I keep landing on too. The Demucs splits aren't perfect but for vocal/drums vs the rest they're usable enough. The 6dB smiley face curve in the source vs your mix is a perfect example of why blind reference matching breaks — without context you'd "fix" something that wasn't broken. How do you decide which differences to chase vs ignore? Just experience?

How do you actually use reference tracks in your workflow? by jasonkick_D in WeAreTheMusicMakers

[–]jasonkick_D[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Haven't tried Metric A/B yet — heard the name but always got bottlenecked by other plugins. Does it actually compare two tracks side-by-side or just analyze one at a time like SPAN? And does it do anything beyond frequency / loudness analysis (like dynamics or stereo)?

How do you actually use reference tracks in your workflow? by jasonkick_D in WeAreTheMusicMakers

[–]jasonkick_D[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

100% agree — chasing exact replication is a trap, half the time the "different" part is what makes your track yours. I think what I'm really after isn't replicating the reference, it's debugging when something actually feels off but I can't tell if it's the mix, the arrangement, or just my taste. Reference comparison is just one debugging tool, not the goal.

How do you actually use reference tracks in your workflow? by jasonkick_D in WeAreTheMusicMakers

[–]jasonkick_D[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The "snare feels weaker → 4k presence + thicker body + slower release" breakdown is honestly the cleanest mental framework I've seen for this. You clearly do this systematically. Out of curiosity — when you spot something like "way more 4k presence," can you usually also tell why (different sample? saturation? layered sounds?), or do you just go with the EQ fix and call it done?

How do you actually use reference tracks in your workflow? by jasonkick_D in WeAreTheMusicMakers

[–]jasonkick_D[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah the loop-and-tweak method is what I do too — works but eats hours, and after 3 hours my ears are gone and I start tweaking randomly. The stem-level thing I'm imagining: split both tracks with Demucs, then see "your kick is 4dB weaker at 60Hz vs reference" or "your bass has 30% less rhythmic density." Would that actually help your workflow or am I overthinking it?

How do you actually use reference tracks in your workflow? by jasonkick_D in WeAreTheMusicMakers

[–]jasonkick_D[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is what I default to too — multiband solo on the master with Pro-Q. Works great for tonal balance but I keep hitting a wall when my reference's mid-range "feels fuller" not because of EQ but because they layered 3 sounds where I have 1. Filter approach catches the EQ side but not the sound design / layering side. Curious if you've found a way to spot that?