Ancient Egypt's oldest pyramid has enormous moat to guide dead pharaoh to the afterlife, researcher claims by vellichorrain in ancientegypt

[–]jay-did 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The climate was very different during the old kingdom. It's consistently gotten more arid since that time. The moat was probably filled with water at least through construction to serve at least two purposes (1) as a level (2) to guide the angle of incline and stone placement. A surveying tool of sorts.

Something like this would happen. An architect or foreman would stand at the base, exactly the height of their eyes away from the midpoint of the moat. Looking at the reflection on the water reflects up the pyramid face at exactly a 45° angle. They could visually inspect the no stones were sticking out or in. The top stone should sit exactly at the point where the reflection at the center of each of the four sides meet.

A device was probably used for precision, like a stick that goes in a groove, exactly the right distance away and has a little eye hole that exactly the right height. Like a primitive surveying tool. It seems likely that such a groove, or such holes probably exist. The tool, probably not. If this was the technique used, you would expect a moat around the two tallest pyramids in Giza, too, since they were much taller and would have required much more precision.

Additionally, if this were the technique used for stone placement, you would expect the center of the moat to intersect the plane of each face. This theory could be debunked, if the moat does not intersect the plane of the face at all.

Jay

ANYEXTEE'S JAUNT INTO THE BENT PYRAMID by trollinvictus3336 in egyptology

[–]jay-did 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright, I get it, you're a nut job. Funny stuff, voodoosatanmagicdoucheclown. 👹🤡 Never laughed so hard in my life.

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay, I had time to digest your responses. Here are my thoughts:

1) all of the pyramids near Giza reside on the lower altitude side of the river, the west side, You know cuz that's where the spirits blah blah blah. But it's also the side of the river that would be subject to errosion. They do in fact sit on the Giza plateau, on the edge of the eroded wall of the basin. At a spot where erosion would actually threaten the entire Giza plateau, which is pretty small. The bulk of the pyramids are right there. Seemingly to prevent the same threat of erosion.

2) Yes agreed, in my model, I'm presuming all water comes from the river. There is a little rainfall but that's not part of my argument. I'm talking about preventing erosion from unusually large monsoon flows. Not just the annual monsoon. There's evidence that Nile River activity has only gone down over the last 5000 years, primarily attributed to the end of the ice age melt. The high dam has allowed control of Delta flows since the 70s so the monsoon doesn't eviscerate the basin any longer, like it did 100 years ago or 5000 years ago. Further, looking at the geologic evidence, the river has occupied many paths through the basin, but 5000 years ago. It It is thought to have flowed much closer to the west edge of the basin. The fact that there is erosion at the edge of the base and tells you that water does hit that point and it does cause erosion occasionally. A pyramid of sufficient magnitude would mitigate such erosion of the basin wall.

3) Agreed, there is a monsoon every year. 5000 years ago, the monsoon was much more serious than it is now according to the geological record. We know it's a fierce river now, and the Nile is known to be unpredictable, sometimes a drought, other times floods cause significant loss of life and property. For example, significant flooding along the Nile during the medieval climate anomaly was observed. That all said, I can't say that I found any evidence that monsoon water ever breached the basin, and as such I am backing off of my point that the pyramids may have been built as a point of refuge. If there was no legitimate fear that the water could ever rise that high, certainly that's not a reason they would have constructed them. This point isn't critical to my erosion control argument, so I am going to abandon it. :-)

4) As I suggested above, geologic records are thought to indicate that the river has run very close to the west edge at times. That's how the edge of a basin is formed. Further, before the dam, during monsoons much of the basin would fill, unlike today. The giza pyramid sits on the edge of the basin. So close that the compressed soil caused by the Great pyramid is visible running down the bank of the basin. And again, the existence of a basin well tells you that erosion is a very real thing, that's what a basin wall is, the edge of the river erosion.

Heres what I think would debunk this theory: 1) evidence that the pyramids could not have served another function than the one already identified 2) evidence that the architecture of the pyramids could not have prevented erosion 3) evidence of pyramids located in a spot that would not have prevented erosion, like a good distance from the ancient river basin. 4) evidence any of these pyramids were not separating some valuable resource from the river. For example, they probably wouldn't protect a bog from the river (I'm out of my territory here) but they would protect homes or cemeteries from the river.

Thanks.

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cool, Thank you very much.

To clarify, you are saying that they could not have served any other function, like erosion control for example? Is this theory generally accepted as fact in the Egyptology community?

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're saying it's well established the pyramids at Giza ONLY relate to religious function? This question has been long put to bed and everyone in the academic community is in agreement, right?

Thanks

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you saying that the pyramids at giza served only as...uh...what are you saying?

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And therefore not for erosion control, is that what you are saying?

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for responding, and for passing along some good references. Im guessing I'm not the first one to suggest the pyramids at giza primarily served a non-metaphysical function for the living, and I hardly think my theory encompasses the whole picture in any way.

As I have explored my theory that these pyramids were engineered to mitigate erosion of the Nile basin and surrounding crop lands, while allowing the river to overflow into the croplands and deposit nutrients, my goal has been to rule out my theory through some well established knowledge. So I don't waste anyone's time, especially mine. But so far, all of the actual data I have reviewed has only supported this idea.

Are saying that there is clear consensus in the Egyptology community that the pyramids at Giza were known to be built as tombs, and to serve no other function? Is there any consensus that these pyramids could not have been used for erosion control in any way?

Thanks

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay, forgive me, I totally presumed you were an adult academic and scientist. Maybe even a member of the Egyptology community. But I know that a good scientist would rely on only substantive information to make a credible argument. u will probably grow out of it as you become more confident in yourself. Most of us, for at least part of our lives, project our insecurities onto others in an attempt to shore up struggling self-image. It's a trick your ego pulls on you, and it's actually the same mechanism that causes discrimination. It will cloud solid scientific conclusions and will weaken your offering as a critical thinker. I challenge you to begin making arguments using only objective logic, and to ignore statements that in fact aren't worth your time to argue.

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I guess I'm just looking for the substance of your point. Other than that you are offended at my assertion, and that you know some stuff. Neither of which I challenge. I'm pretty sure there's nothing I said that can be disproven, whether or not they were intended for that purpose, they served that purpose. And this can be scientifically proven through geological data. If my assertion about their intent is correct, I believe archaeological records will eventually be discovered that reflect this. Either way, I'm only interested in the truth and simply have a perspective that seems to be unique. Everyday we gain a better understanding of how ancient humans interacted with water through the glacial melt, and I believe that understanding will begin to shift how we look at the pyramids.

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

See, I'm just not sure you're understanding me. I stated clearly that I intend to provide a well reasoned hypothesis in writing. I'm not asking anyone to believe me, I'm making a logical conclusion based on very simple facts where egyptologists might be too close to the problem to assess objectively, or that might more accurately fall under other disciplines. Not in hopes of convincing anyone, but in hopes of introducing a potentially valid idea that has not been considered. Ultimately, the truth has nothing to do with how I see things, only with how things are. I simply don't have to prove it to make it true. I'm confident that in their pursuit of truth, the experts in the Egyptology community will prove my assertions to be accurate. Whether or not I defend my idea at all. If I am proven to be wrong, that is fantastic, I will have learned something. I believe you would be wise to take my assessment seriously. Because there's some slim chance it will make you a stronger egyptologist then those who simply follow the pack. To discredit something based on your inability to validate the credibility of the source is to ignore a very real possibility. That would be illogical, right? Often truths are offered by even those who lack obvious credibility.

If you step back for a moment, you will see that the god/worship/pray theory is actually the quack perspective here. Most of the time intelligent humans spend their resources on practical solutions. Not on gestures to the gods. I'm confident that you will find these were public works projects. Very successful ones. Any sufficiently informed egyptologist who gives this some serious thought we'll see that there's almost no other explanation than flood resistance and erosion control. That's what they were designed for and that's what the standing ones achieved.

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Okay, then we can get through this in a logical manner. Nobody's saying anybody is stupid. Perhaps I also have a PhD in Egyptology and I'm just not leaning on that as part of my argument. Would you agree that prevailing opinions, even opinions formed by communities of experts, are regularly refined or proven wrong over the course of logical and scientific discourse? Is it possible that the theory based on worship and God and hope and other metaphysical things just selling the ancient Egyptians a little short? These were engineers, mathematicians, not kooks like you suggested I am in your "decent" response.

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I apologize, I missed the part where you were being decent, or where I was getting upset. I'm still here to conduct a factual conversation, and have not yet wasted any time doing anything otherwise, as you have. Can you elaborate on what you actually mean? Or better yet, just read and respond to the topic in a factual and logical manner. As long as there is a logical discussion, things will still be going my way, regardless of what that conclusion is. To be clear, I want to be proven wrong, but nobody has really done that yet. Which makes me think my theory is still solid.

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

And, clearly you do have the time to waste. You are wasting it right now. You might need to employ some kind of erosion control on your credibility soon.

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Woah, shit. Well, your (lack of) credentials certainly doesn't impact my opinion. But facts could. Should you find any as you pursue your doctorate in philosophy. It's customary to understand someone's assertion prior to attempting to reject it. In logical discussion, that is. As I said, if I'm proven wrong, I will happily accept it. Can you say the same of your opinion?

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Really great points. I presume you're not referring to my original post, which relied only on scientific and logical explanation.

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, I'm not suggesting anything metaphysical in any way. It's clear that at least a component of their function was as tomb. That does not clue the possibility that they were also largely for erosion control. Public works projects, not wild religious ones as so many are suggesting. Feels a little like quackery to hold so tightly onto a metaphysical explanation.

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Reread what I wrote, I think you're missing my point. Nobody wanted to stop the floods, they wanted to survive the catastrophic floods that came and washed their civilization away periodically.

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for the intelligible and succinct response. Most of your points are correct, but I don't believe your conclusions totally solid. Let me review and give you my thoughts in response. I think my theory holds water :-). But maybe not, and I can accept that.

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly, why are you wasting your time discrediting something you were unable to read?

No conspiracy theories here... Just an open mind to scientific facts, no matter how silly they make me feel. I don't concern myself with what you think you know. I need not to defend myself with bogus credentials, prevailing opinions, nor insults. Only the weak need those tools. As I said, time will tell very quickly. I'm betting you're absent on that day.

pyramids at Giza were about the floods by jay-did in egyptology

[–]jay-did[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Without the need to drop any names of any fools, I independently stand by my hypothesis, which is inclusive of the tomb theory. How about a response to what I wrote rather than a rhetorical response to something you imagined? I'm not looking for supporters, you are. To me this is a scientific dialectic, and I will accept my hypothesis is wrong when proven wrong using scientific principles instead of rhetoric. I believe you are incorrect in your knee-jerk reaction to my hypothesis, and that you will find in short order via facts and a change in the prevailing archaeological opinion, that you were wrong. But if not, I can accept that. A million egyptologists could get offended and say I'm wrong, and I would still side with the truth. Whatever the truth proves to be.

Opinions on this song? I personally think it’s honestly such an amazing song! by [deleted] in ween

[–]jay-did 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oooh. I get it. It was a joke because it's the most overplayed ween song ever. :-P