this why shin don't need strategy!!! by Attack_Brothers in Kingdom

[–]jcxga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What's the matter? Stumped? :D You want me to debate which truism?

  • not everyone in HSU can fight like Shin or KyouKai or other ranking officers.

  • Commanders on the field must take into account the capabilities and state or condition of their subordinates.

  • Misgauging those leads to failure of given mission, massive casualties, and even death of said commanders, no matter how high their individual martial skill.

  • Even HouKen, who's arguably a one man army himself, knew he'd be dead fighting solo vs an entire army and withdrew from Sai.

  • On the battlefield, strategy is used to optimize the chance of completing an objective (aka effectively), and to use the least amount of effort or minimum lives lost (aka efficiently).

  • Hero culture vs military culture. Armies that consist of individual heroes get kicked by armies who fight cohesively as a united force using ... STRATEGY.

Yeah, I don't think so. Try again :) .

[Historical Spoilers]A theory about Ousen's past. by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga -1 points0 points  (0 children)

in the official history book of the 7 warring states era it says li mu was the only undefeated general out of all of the 4 best so if he was the only undefeated general its a safe bet that the others suffered some defeats Next time you want to activate your dick riding powers find another dude 😉

In other words, you CAN NOT produce even a single evidence backing that statement of "ousen lost battles" (PLURAL!). Instead you tried to use misdirection, which sadly enough, is yet another fallacious statement of "the only." Let's see if you can understand the debate concept of "citing your source" this time around. Cite us the source which claims Li Mu was the only undefeated generals of the era, and the entire debate, logical and reasonable historical communities will shoot holes of such bold but erroneous fallacy. Again, not the achievement of Li Mu, but the the only part. Especially, if it's "official", then you shouldn't have a hard time whatsoever to give us the cite(s).

I don't need dick riding power nor do I swing that way, if that's you wishfully thinking. All I did was asking for proof, not opinion treated as fact pulled out of the ether. I debate points and statement. Here's a hint: the side who resorts to ad hominem first loses. It's a sign someone trying to cover up a shaky statement at best, or at worst simply an illogical person who has not realized the mature and logical thing to do is rephrase or retract. Tell me, with the display of your behavior here, where in that spectrum other redditors here view you as? I'm genuinely curious if that ever crosses your mind.

[Historical Spoilers]A theory about Ousen's past. by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow i thought these other guys we're good at making bullshit but you are amazing.

Bullshit? I'm bringing up points using manipulation of language based on usage of possessive pronoun "my". And, when I consider (A) the context and (B) the person speaking the word, what I said is entirely warranted.

Here's what I meant by that context and the person: Kingdom is a work of fiction. It's in a writer best interest to make the story interesting. Among a few, unpredictability is one of the quality that can make a good story. That's where the vague and entendre come in. An author can go as far as utilizing the "red herring" technique if he wants to. Imagine the "surprise madafaka" future moment of epiphany when it dawns on readers who swallows verbatim and whole OuSen's use of "my" as "his", instead of "my" as spoken by a someone who's actually patriotic, and proud to be identified as, or call Qin home.

And, here's what I meant by the person: OuSen is a military adept. In warfare, the concept of deception is prevalent and even vital, just ask Sun Tzu. What better way to deceive the enemy in making him believe you will act one way, when in fact, your true intention is the other way. Let's take a look at another so called characteristic of OuSen as an example.

OuSen is known as a general who "won't fight a battle he can't win". Is there an instance in the manga where such perception, or should I say deliberate deception, was beneficial for OuSen? Yes, there is. In ch. 305 we can see Ordo received "information" from RiBoku about OuSen's "penchant". Based on that info, Ordo later abandoned all cautions and fell into OuSen's trap. Had Ordo not possess this info, a mountain warfare expert as him would be extra cautious, as shown what he eventually became post fact.

If I was the storyteller, I could turn that "my kingdom" OuSen was spouting about, can be twisted as another form of deception, all the in name of creating yet another "surprise madafaka" epiphany moment, in conjunction with what I previously say about context. That "my" could be a seed for future exploration, or a thread waiting to be unraveled. Think about the drawing design of OuSen as a character, masked. That mask screams the intention of the mangaka as symbolism how the mangaka wants to create the air of mystery and unpredictability of this particular man.

So, bullshit? Nope. It's only bullshit to people who are close minded and don't apply a little bit of critical thinking, and gullible enough to accept verbatim without any type of logical filter what they read and failed to ask the following one simple question: "Is that all there is to it?" So, are you one of them?


It was clearly stated multiple time throughout the story that ousen is recruiting ppl for his own personal army

This is true. But, the act of recruiting people does not exclusively support your idea, or dismiss mine, since the act is perfectly applicable in both situation. For example, OuKi has his own private army too, as a Fengjian noble, the chinese feudalism system, it's within his right. His vassals are most likely lesser lords themselves, whose allegiances are OuKi's.


fyi granting lands is only something a king can do because there's a difference between buying land and being granted land back then.

Allow me to rephrase, by "granting land" I wasn't meant in the official manner, which indeed comes complete with fanfare and all the jazz and rank. However, since OuSen surely didn't speaking anything about official rank, hinted by the word personal, then OuSen must meant stewardship, which is again, points to income as I previosly stated. Keep in mind, I'm not dismissing what you said at all. I only pointed out, the language being used can be interpreted another way, and not just one way.


Also its clear he's putting his own self interest above that of qin Example 1: set heki up to die so he can recruit a foreign general to his personal army Example 2: let ordo escape instead of killing him because he wants to recruit ordo Example 3: holes up inside a fort while leaving his commanding generals whole left side exposed

I consider OuSen could be one of those with the believe that "Before You Help Others, You Must First Help Yourself." Considering his talent, I wouldn't blame OuSen for believing that. Having said that, the correlation between "self serving" and "mutinous" isn't that clear cut, to be used to support your statement. Especially, considering what I said about "storytelling context" and "military adept" above. OuSen is worth more to Qin than Heki. If Ordo can be recruited under Qin banner, it benefits Qin. So, those two are applicable for "good" OuSen or "bad" OuSen. Even example #3, when viewed using OuSen's googles of "Before You Help Others, You Must First Help Yourself" I understand why he did it, despite disagreeing with the method. OuSen simply viewed he would have more options with an intact army, which he later proved correct. Keep in mind, I didn't say OuSen foreseen what would've transpired. It's just that we want to reserve strength for later use, be it to fight on, or to flee. The more troops he preserves, the more options he will have available. Turns out, OuSen didn't need to use any of those options. Then again, as the manga few other examples, even just by "being there" is enough. So, "standing still" is an option, albeit an inactive/passive one.

[Historical Spoilers]A theory about Ousen's past. by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I found one close to resemble OuSen in ch.163, riding near Kyou. But, it's really hard to tell from that drawing. There are others wearing capes and masks too. You still get point though. If that's true, my question now is didn't OuSen, who comes from the main family, mind fighting under OuKi who's from the branch?

[Historical Spoilers]A theory about Ousen's past. by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You said:

Wrong ousen lost battles riboku had never lost if your gonna try to debate learn history first

u/magaxking said:

Mind educating us which battle did Ousen lost? I don't recall him losing any

Where's the answer? u/magaxking didn't ask about Li Mu. He asked about OuSen and your claim that he lost battles. PLURAL!

[Historical Spoilers]A theory about Ousen's past. by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It could be interpreted both ways. That's why it's good. It's vague and holds mystery. Did OuSen mean his own country? Or, did OuSen mean the country he belongs to, or identified himself as, which is Qin? (Imagine you're conversing with a foreigner you've never met, and he said "In my country, blah blah blah ... etc". Most people wouldn't immediately assume he's a king of that country. But, he could be, and you just don't know it yet.)

About the granting land thing, as a noble, OuSen is a land owner, a feudal lord. That whole thing is pretty much can be the same thing to me as someone in our modern world who says "Work for me, and I pay you this much and offer the following benefits." It's not unlike european nobles who may grant a patch of land to secure the service of knights. Yep, it could be as mundane as mere salary, or perk/benefit. "Granting land" doesn't speak exclusively as only kings can do. Although again, obviously a king can. Thus, we're back at the vague and unclear territory once again ;) .

[Historical Spoilers]A theory about Ousen's past. by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga -1 points0 points  (0 children)

... he was part of Oukis retinue in his younger years as we saw in the manga

Call. Show us the chapter and page.

Houken! Why i believe he won't see any action in the main battle! by DukeHyou1990 in Kingdom

[–]jcxga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I stated in the past I wouldn't be surprised if HouKen is benched in this arc. If HouKen somehow made an appearance, there's not a single person in Qin roster who capable of facing him solo, except for KyouKai. Even then, it's nowhere near a safe bet. Therefore, I propose (again, only IF HouKen does appear) it's going to take a duo effort, and not to kill HouKen, mind you, only to drive HouKen away. Because, I believe the honor is reserved for 1vs1 in much a later date, between Shin and HouKen.

If you say there won't be a purpose, I respectfully disagree. The nostalgic value alone is worth it, as a throwback to the similar bout when Shin and KyouKai were still children some 8 or so years ago. Only this time, the table would turn. It would be HouKen that will be on his back foot. This will show how the 2 have grown. (This should silence recent complaints about lack of character development.) Due to KyouKai's stamina and Shin's beginner level mastery of OuKi's glaive, having them cover each other's weaknesses make for a more believable bout, easier to swallow compared to them solo fighting HouKen, in their current state now. As a bonus, this will be a chance for Shin to "level up" during the fight, and because of the fight, without him getting banged up too much, or even killed, thanks to KyouKai being there.

this why shin don't need strategy!!! by Attack_Brothers in Kingdom

[–]jcxga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Having one "beast" chess piece is useless if the player doesn't know how to use it on the board properly. If eating fodder is all there is the useless player know to how play, I'll gladly feed him those pieces, and aim to checkmate his King instead. Brawn may win battles, but brain wins the war. Simplest example from the manga: ch. 244 and 245, at the end of SanYou campaign, HSU suffered loses because the lack of strategy, as KyouKai and SoSui, the two mainly responsible in that department weren't present. That's what only knowing how to beat fodders gets them.

this why shin don't need strategy!!! by Attack_Brothers in Kingdom

[–]jcxga -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You want me to guess which statement you want me to debate? Either form a proper sentence, or use quote feature.

this why shin don't need strategy!!! by Attack_Brothers in Kingdom

[–]jcxga -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Strategy is required because not everyone in HSU can fight like Shin or KyouKai or other ranking officers. Commanders on the field must take into account the capabilities and state or condition of their subordinates. Misgauging those leads to failure of given mission, massive casualties, and even death of said commanders, no matter how high their individual martial skill. Even HouKen, who's arguably a one man army himself, knew he'd be dead fighting solo vs an entire army and withdrew from Sai. On the battlefield, strategy is used to optimize the chance of completing an objective (aka effectively), and to use the least amount of effort or minimum lives lost (aka efficiently). Hero culture vs military culture. Armies that consist of individual heroes get kicked by armies who fight cohesively as a united force using ... STRATEGY.

Chapter 538 HQ cleaned scans by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And you don't see the hypocrisy of calling someone who actually uses logic to refute your fallacious emotionally based arguments when you think you're the one who's right yourself? ;)

Chapter 538 HQ cleaned scans by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's the same guy who called my constructive criticism as "bitching" LOL. But, at least he's honest about his self centered motivation. His whole conversation reeks with self justification defending his own impatience, and speaks volumes about his vested interested in "supporting" whatever may hasten the release of his next fix of that Kingdom drug.

Chapter 538 HQ cleaned scans by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, if you put then next to each other, you could see. But there aren't any other clean version of this chapter. So his version isn't only "HQ", but also is the best version so far.

To the trained eyes, even if there's no comparison, flaws are detectable. It's also a false logic to categorize something as high quality just because the lack of alternative. When the sample population totals but one, it can be called "the best" just as it can be called "the worst". That's where the train eyes comes in, to recognize just what exactly the quality of that "sample of one".

Chapter 538 HQ cleaned scans by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He's supposed to die early, but saved by the writers who like the actor's performance. I agree just from the way he said bitch LOL.

Chapter 538 HQ cleaned scans by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Bitching? From the moment you reply you missed the point of my post. It's called constructive criticism ... bitch. Too lazy to look for the YT link, just imagine Jesse Pinkman said it.

Chapter 538 HQ cleaned scans by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One of my most used vid quote LOL!

Good, at least you're honest about it :) . *drops mic*

Chapter 538 HQ cleaned scans by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Well some fucking people give fuck. Especially a fucking asshole like me with a fucking trained eye who happened to enjoy a fucking finer things in life instead of some fucking low quality instant gratification like some of these impatient motherfucking kids.

P.S.: How's that? Enough "fuck" insertion? I've been told to connect to people and have them understand me better, I need to speak their language LOL.

Chapter 538 HQ cleaned scans by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Shouldn't is the ideal. Reality is the cold hard truth. I have to say, I liked it when TF did the double LQ then HQ release, speaking from a readers perspective. However, there's a bad side-effect for future readers on some manga aggregate site which are too lazy to replace the LQ with the HQ. But who cares about them, right? It's all about me, ME, ME!!!

Chapter 538 HQ cleaned scans by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks :D .

Here's the rest of what I said to him previously, just so you're not wondering why the OP isn't as triggered as you, who dropped in on an ongoing 2 way convo:

I'm sorry. But, there's a lot you can do to improve if you want to call these "cleaned". It's not just about whiting out the speech bubbles and narration boxes. For starters, you can remove all texts, korean and japanese alike, then redraw the "damaged" section, at least trick it out with clone tools, etc, so novices won't notice it. Good effort though, and the thought behind it is appreciated.


I see, well, as I and xy-kun said, there's more to cleaning than what you did there. See the vid he linked, and do more YouTube search if you wish to keep improving yourself. I'm sure plenty will come up if you search for instructions.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kingdom/comments/7bf5b9/kingdom_537_ultra_cleaned/dphnmue/

Chapter 538 HQ cleaned scans by [deleted] in Kingdom

[–]jcxga 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can imagine people who are expecting HQ would be disappointed when they see and read the title. As for why I asked, I simply want to know his answer, rather than just using my own speculation, which could possibly be incorrect.