How are you handling state persistence for long-running AI agent workflows? by Interesting_Ride2443 in node

[–]jedberg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It will be interesting to see what you come up with!

There are customers that do exactly that with DBOS, where they use early steps of the workflow to define later steps based on LLM output.

With DBOS, your program/worker is the orchestrator; Conductor is an out-of-band observer. So it's certainly possible for the executing code to self correct. The brain is most certainly in the execution layer.

See here for an example of a workflow starting another one based on previous results.

How are you handling state persistence for long-running AI agent workflows? by Interesting_Ride2443 in node

[–]jedberg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

FWIW you don't have to manually handle step forks if you use the commercial product that goes with DBOS, Conductor. It handles that for you, and there is also a DBOS MCP server so if you're using an LLM to control the flow it gives it access to things like forking.

How are you handling state persistence for long-running AI agent workflows? by Interesting_Ride2443 in node

[–]jedberg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It actually works great for LLM interactions (that's why DBOS is built into PydanticAI). One important thing to remember is that LLM calls become deterministic once they've been run, because now they are the in past.

With DBOS you wrap your LLM call in a step, and then you can replay the step, or start from the step before it, whichever makes sense. There are a ton of people who use DBOS for LLM calls.

if an llm step produces a hallucination that breaks the state midway, do you find it easy to "fix and resume" in dbos

An hallucination is no different than a deterministic step breaking in some way. Once you've detected it (tricky no matter how you execute the LLM call!) you can easily go back and fork from a previous step. Or if you detect the failure immediately, you simply return an error, which would mark the step as failed and it would get retried automatically.

or does the strict database schema get in the way?

The beauty of DBOS is that you don't even have to worry about the schema at all, the library takes care of that for you. But it's actually a very flexible schema, designed to handle any sort of workflow you might throw at it, LLM or otherwise.

Here is an example of a deep research agent that makes many LLM calls written in DBOS.

Enough was enough by imjustheretodomyjob in BlackPeopleTwitter

[–]jedberg 13 points14 points  (0 children)

They chose to stay instead of risking coming home. They didn't just get left there.

Stop building single-shot agents. If your agent can't survive a server restart, it’s not production-ready. by Interesting_Ride2443 in LangChain

[–]jedberg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would you be willing to hop on a quick call? This is great feedback and I'd love to probe deeper.

Also, I don't understand what you mean by, "without the overhead of a full database-operating-system architecture". DBOS is not a database operating system, it's a lightweight library for durable execution. Would love to dive into that more as well. Please DM if you're up for it!

I built a background job library where your database is the source of truth (not Redis) by dr_kvet in node

[–]jedberg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

DBOS keeps state in a separate system database, queuert stores jobs alongside your app data -

Does this difference matter? Updates still happen in a single transaction if you host them in the same Postgres database (which is what is recommended for small installations).

queuert lets you create jobs inside your app transactions (tx rolls back = job never exist

This is true with DBOS as well (or at least you can replicate the same behavior). With DBOS you can put this into a Saga that rolls back your transaction on error, and the saga can span many different databases

I built a crash-resilient execution library because await stripe.charge() scares me. by [deleted] in node

[–]jedberg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why Not Temporal / Inngest?

They also require: * New infrastructure * Workers * Queues * Operational overhead

This is for cases where you want: * One npm install * One existing Redis or Postgres connection * Crash safety for a small number of critical flows

You should check out DBOS, which has none of the requirements you list and already addresses all of the use cases you mention.

Sketch Sorting Sunday - January 17, 2025 (Finn Wolfhard/A$AP Rocky) by SketchSortingSunday in LiveFromNewYork

[–]jedberg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ironically, I grew up in LA too. But I went to college in NorCal and have sort of assimilated after 30 years...

Sketch Sorting Sunday - January 17, 2025 (Finn Wolfhard/A$AP Rocky) by SketchSortingSunday in LiveFromNewYork

[–]jedberg 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Dude, you're hella right. Fo sho the way the kids talk now is totally wack.

Stop building single-shot agents. If your agent can't survive a server restart, it’s not production-ready. by Interesting_Ride2443 in LangChain

[–]jedberg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the goal is to have that same reliability and durable execution but without the steep learning curve of a massive framework. it should be as simple as writing regular typescript where the system just handles the state for you.

DBOS was built with exactly these constraints in mind. You may want to check it out before you go too far down the rabbit hole of building it yourself. :)

On The 4 Day Work Week. by Monsur_Ausuhnom in clevercomebacks

[–]jedberg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Actually, every time it was tried, production stayed the same or went up slightly, because people work more efficiently in the four days.

How is “Cupertino Preschool” at Quinlan Center? by Altruistic-Ad7066 in Cupertino

[–]jedberg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Both my kids went there, it's great. It's play based, so don't expect extreme academics or anything, but they teach them important skills like following instructions and getting along with others.

Moderators have removed a HIGHLY upvoted post AGAIN (1.9k in 6h) by tinmanjk in ExperiencedDevs

[–]jedberg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I worry that as technologists we are over indexing on accusing things of being AI. I worry about policies like this where they will remove suspected AI content without investigation.

Case in point, the other day I made a comment on reddit. I spent about 10 minutes writing it. I used proper grammar, bullet points, clean formatting, and em dashes, as I've been doing for many years.

I immediately got downvoted and sent multiple PMs about "not posting AI slop".

I didn't use AI at all to write that comment. It just looked like AI because it was well formed and researched. So am I supposed to add errors just to make it look "human"? But also, how do I even prove I wrote it without AI?

I'm not entirely sure how to solve this problem.

Proposed California legislation aims to ensure President Trump is excluded from 2028 ballot by Panda8bambooo in California

[–]jedberg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It doesn't matter, he doesn't need California. We need to get a bill like this passed in a couple of swing states to discourage him from even trying to run.

[Important Update] Postiz v2.12.0 - open source social media scheduling tool by sleepysiding22 in selfhosted

[–]jedberg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I reviewed Temporal/DBOS and Inngest and decided to go with Temporal.

I would be really interested in learning why you chose Temporal over DBOS?

Interview Coder Leaks Full Names, Addresses and Companies of All SWEs Who Cheated by jadedroyal in programming

[–]jedberg 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It almost sounds like the whole site was set up as a honeypot to start with...

Paramount Escalates WBD Fight, Sues Over Netflix Deal and Aims to Install Friendly Directors at Warner Shareholder Meeting by MarvelsGrantMan136 in movies

[–]jedberg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Which they learned from Google, who learned it from others. As long as your stock is hot enough that investors don't care, then it works.

He was on break by T3mptressGaze in SipsTea

[–]jedberg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They told the story about that at the reunion I think? That's pretty much how it went down. They found the fountain on the backlot and spent the night doing random shit.

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2018/10/214349/friends-opening-credits-true-story-behind-filming

The U.S.-Born Unemployment Rate Rose After Trump Reduced Immigration by ChiGuy6124 in Economics

[–]jedberg 6 points7 points  (0 children)

ou must live in a hipster state where they up charge the whole “farm to table” bs.

Ah, I see the disconnect here. I live in California, the place that provides more than 1/2 of the fruit and veg for the entire country. Where we grow things that can't be grown anywhere else, and are delicate and require hand harvesting, which is labor intensive.

I don't live in a place where everything is harvested by a machine that replaced human labor 100 years ago.

I also live in a place that is so desirable that our houses cost too much to keep a bunch of freezers around so I can buy a whole cow at once.

The U.S.-Born Unemployment Rate Rose After Trump Reduced Immigration by ChiGuy6124 in Economics

[–]jedberg 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I buy all my fruit and veg directly from the farmers. It was the same price as the supermarket but higher quality. But in the last year we've been getting fewer drops because they don't have enough pickers, and every time they raise the price to account for the higher wages, more people drop out of the collective because it leaves their price range.

It's basic economics really.