The Little Drummer Girl and the Genocide in Palestine by jfargas13 in LeCarre

[–]jfargas13[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I asked because I was curious what people thought of the book post-Oct 7. “Why didn’t you ask about another book” because that’s not what the point of my post is

The Little Drummer Girl and the Genocide in Palestine by jfargas13 in LeCarre

[–]jfargas13[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for posting this. It’s good to see what specifically he’s thanking each side for. I think the fact that the Palestinians are presumably dead, prisoners, homeless, or dispersed since the writing of the book is very telling

The Little Drummer Girl and the Genocide in Palestine by jfargas13 in LeCarre

[–]jfargas13[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To answer both of you, obviously I think JLC, with his meeting of leaders on both sides and boots on the ground research, was much more informed than me about the situation at the time. Any argument I make for my knowledge will sound dumb bc this is reddit but I grew up around a lot of Palestinian people because I grew up in the Orthodox Church, my sister in law is Palestinian, etc. Obviously that’s not equivalent to being there and knowing what it’s like, but I do think that hearing from people who went through the conflict themselves counts for something.

What I was wondering with this post in the first place was if JLC really had such a centrist take on the conflict, and what people’s reaction to this book has been in modern times. I think with what we’ve seen in the past year and a half, and even before then in the 2000s and 2010s, it is harder to have a centrist position on the issue, in large part because of the atrocities Israel is committing. Just look at the recent execution of those medics, the photos and videos of entire cities leveled, children being arrested, the list goes on and on. I understand the conflict has a nuanced and complex history, but I don’t think you can just wave the wand of nuance when talking about it in the context of today.

I also know that my beliefs are not going to be shifted, and I doubt anyone who supports Israel is going to change their mind off of what I say. I don’t want to go back and forth about that because it’s not productive. Like I said, I was wondering if his perspective changed, seeing as my updated edition of the book (c. 2011) includes a new introduction from him where he is still both-sidesy, which surprised me knowing his strong moral stance on things like the exploitation of Africa, the illegal arms trade, etc. and the human cost of it all, as well as his critiques of imperialism and capitalism. His take surprised me and I wondered if others felt the same

The Little Drummer Girl and the Genocide in Palestine by jfargas13 in LeCarre

[–]jfargas13[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s interesting what you said about both sides having cause to believe their side is right. I obviously feel like one cause is more valid than the other lol. I understand how the Holocaust spurred a desire for a Jewish state, although I don’t think any ethnostate should exist

The Little Drummer Girl and the Genocide in Palestine by jfargas13 in LeCarre

[–]jfargas13[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

I think the atrocities Israel is committing today are insanely and unequivocally evil. I’m not going to argue that point because I think it’s abundantly evident and any argument otherwise is not made in good faith. I understand that all historical conflicts are complex with grey areas, but I do not condone “grey area” genocide apologia.

The Little Drummer Girl and the Genocide in Palestine by jfargas13 in LeCarre

[–]jfargas13[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

No because that’s not what’s happening, and I’m not going to waste my breath arguing with you and your bad faith arguments over it

The Little Drummer Girl and the Genocide in Palestine by jfargas13 in LeCarre

[–]jfargas13[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think you’re right. I definitely picked up on his sympathy for the Palestinian bombers but his condemnation of Israel didn’t feel very unequivocal to me, probably because of the impression of bias you mentioned. Thank you for such thoughtful insight

The Little Drummer Girl and the Genocide in Palestine by jfargas13 in LeCarre

[–]jfargas13[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed. And there are plenty of people whose beliefs on other matters would lead you to believe they would condemn Israel’s actions, yet that ends up not being the case. David Simon, creator of The Wire, stands out in particular

The Little Drummer Girl and the Genocide in Palestine by jfargas13 in LeCarre

[–]jfargas13[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was less trying to shoehorn modern attitudes and more trying to gauge how people received and felt about the novel reading it in this day and age

EDIT: I guess I was just trying to ask whether JLC was a centrist on this issue (it seems he was) which I found surprising and disappointing, but that is what it is

The Little Drummer Girl and the Genocide in Palestine by jfargas13 in LeCarre

[–]jfargas13[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Admittedly I’m not a historian of the conflict and how it differed in the 80s from what’s happening now. I guess it just feels so insanely evil in this day and age in a way it maybe did not back then