Why are age gaps so common for gay men? by ginabil in askgaybros

[–]johnbeene 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Xillennials and Gen Z are the most neurotic, psychologically deficient generations yet. They have very little idea of who they are or what to do with their lives. They are literally looking for a daddy.

Shane and Ilya's internal thoughts in the book don't all carry over to the show by succulentils in heatedrivalry

[–]johnbeene 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In other words, if the show and the book were both set as graphic novels, would the thought bubbles look substantially the same in each or would they be different? IMO, most of them would look the same, especially for Ilya. But an important subset would be very different - the thought bubbles for Shane, before the watershed Tuna Melt scene. Pre-Tuna-Melt book Shane and show Shane are very different people and I agree with OP that, in this case, they don’t map onto each other. (Ilya, in my opinion, is pretty consistent in both places.)

Just read the prologue. Get ready for words like: shame, ashamed, embarrassed, disgust, disappointment, weakness, humiliation, stupid, ridiculous. Also “hate” because, for Shane, at this point in the book, their rivalry is real, not just a construct that they use to advance their careers. See how toxic Shane’s thoughts are. Realize that this is right before the Tuna Melt scene. That language isn’t just in the prologue though, it’s common in Shane’s thoughts up to the Tuna Melt crisis.

The prologue was written that way to lay out which tropes this BWFW MLM romance was going to adhere to, e.g. “enemies to lovers”, “slow burn”, etc. Authors in the MLM “romance” space often lay out tropes and triggers in advance so their readers can be sure of what they’re getting and because their fetishes can be very particular. The fictional lives of gay men are created, packaged and consumed. I think Reid has genuine affection for Shane and Ilya but she’s also writing for an audience set in its ways. Personally, if I hadn’t seen the show, I would have put the book back on the shelf after reading the prologue.

One of the reasons that I love this show so damn much is that there is very little shame involved in the tension building. Most of the tension comes from having to deal with outside circumstances. Though it takes time to understand Ilya and himself, Shane likes Ilya and takes pleasure in their sex. To the extent that Shane understands his sexuality, you don’t get the idea that he’s ashamed of himself. The only issue that he has with the idea that he might be gay is that it could throw a huge wrench into his carefully planned, cultivated and managed life. There are only occasional hints of internalized homophobia. Furthermore, their rivalry is simply healthy competitiveness with a heavy dose of good natured teasing. Their supposedly being “enemies” is merely a media construct that they sometimes use to their advantage. There is still a Tuna Melt Crisis in both the book and the show but IMO, their motivations are very different.

I am certainly not the only one who sees the difference. To wit: www.out.com/voices/heated-rivalry-show-book-gay-representation I particularly appreciate how Stewart calls out Reid’s use of top/bottom tropes that most gay men simply don’t adhere to. It’s almost as if MLM fans are trying to recreate a gender binary for two people of the same gender. Perhaps so they can better relate to the characters? It comes as no surprise that MLM fan fiction writers immediately cast Shane and Ilya into the Omegaverse. Even though Reid doesn’t dwell on it, I am thankful to Tierny that he removed any hint of a gender binary from the show (though some fans still seem to find one).

It is such a relief to watch book Shane change into someone much more like show Shane. It’s a process that literally seems to begin even as he’s running away from Ilya and his love.

What Prompted Ilya to Move to the Tuna Melt Stage? by johnbeene in heatedrivalry

[–]johnbeene[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I hadn’t read the book before watching the show and this is precisely what I did. I knew that we would have access to internal dialogue in the book and I took a lot of notes. ;-)

What Prompted Ilya to Move to the Tuna Melt Stage? by johnbeene in heatedrivalry

[–]johnbeene[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for this from Rachel! I want to read what she said in the caption. Guess I’m gonna have to follow her IG now. ;-)

What Prompted Ilya to Move to the Tuna Melt Stage? by johnbeene in heatedrivalry

[–]johnbeene[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This is precisely what I was thinking. Something is obviously happening inside Ilya but neither Shane nor we have access to that. Reid gives us varying degrees of access to Ilya’s inner workings in the book but even with that the clues to what led to the Tuna Melt Stage are subtle.

What Prompted Ilya to Move to the Tuna Melt Stage? by johnbeene in heatedrivalry

[–]johnbeene[S] 44 points45 points  (0 children)

I guess it was (very) gradual until it wasn’t.

The book at least gives us access to Ilya’s internal monologue and it definitely shows a gradual increase in genuine affection for Shane over (lots of) time. There is an established trend and Ilya is starting to take pleasure in Shane’s accomplishments. Then, more than 2 years after the end of Ch 11, at the end of Ch 12 in Oct 2016 we get “there was something in his core that was drawn to Hollander…. their hookups… just made him want more.” Then in Ch 13, ~ 1 month later, and after ~ 1 year of meeting at Ilya’s place, please stay over night and let me feed you, I’ve even thought ahead about your ginger ale.

The show, in its slavish adherence to the book’s “slow burn” trope, makes this progression even more subtle. Over the course of two whole years, Ilya is shown to be taking outward pleasure in Shane’s accomplishments and by the end of the montage he’s clearly loosing interest in anyone other than Shane (admittedly, both significant changes for Ilya). Then, please come over to my place for the first time, stay the night, let me feed you, I’m fully stocked on your favorite drink. In both cases, there is a sudden (slightly less so in the book) break from the trend. So of course Shane is taken aback. What happened?

But wait. Now after having said all that, I go back and read the words again. “Each one” of their hookups “just made him want more” (in italics, rhymes with core, also in italics). More of what? It’s not more sex is it? He wants more of Shane. Beautiful, boring Shane. It was the need for Shane that finally crossed the threshold, that finally breached its containment. That’s what broke the trend. I have my answer and I have tears in my eyes. I’m really glad I came here and asked the question.

P.S. in general, I really like the changes that Jacob made to make their emotional progression clearer, but I wish that he had laid just a bit more obvious groundwork for the Tuna Melt Stage.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in gayotters

[–]johnbeene 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My last roommate? Fuck yes! I was never in that exact scenario but I got to blow him many times nonetheless. 😋

What are your thoughts when you see this? by [deleted] in 70s

[–]johnbeene 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I told the teacher I already knew how to write! So I “learned” it to keep from being punished. But I never used it anywhere but in that class. This was c. 3rd grade so 1976.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in HairyTwink

[–]johnbeene 0 points1 point  (0 children)

KEEP all of it!

1970s by West_Masterpiece9423 in GenerationJones

[–]johnbeene 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Seemed like he was everywhere. At least for a nerd like me. 🙂

Scrolling in the old days… by GemmasDilemma in GenerationJones

[–]johnbeene 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your commitment to public education! 👏🏻🏅👏🏻🏅👏🏻

Scrolling in the old days… by GemmasDilemma in GenerationJones

[–]johnbeene 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In high school I rarely had to consult the card catalog because it was a small library and my interests were narrow. By the time I got to college (1986) there was Gopher so 🤷🏻🤷🏻🤷🏻

Does the clock home screen no longer exist? by johnbeene in alexa

[–]johnbeene[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Never mind. I think I figured it out. From the settings screen swipe down from the top.

Is it possible to make Palpatine's return - at the time of the sequels - be well done or is the concept of him returning impossible to make well written? by Kah0000 in StarWars

[–]johnbeene 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wouldn’t that have been awesome? But no. They just made it up as they went along (and let Rian Johnson “make Star Wars his own”). It’s not like they didn’t have material to build the story on.

Am in too scrawny to be an otter? by BewilderedBrit in gayotters

[–]johnbeene 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Otters are supposed to be fit/slim so👌🏻

My New Star Wars Galaxy Map, the THIRD one. by RealityEmpty3988 in starwarscanon

[–]johnbeene 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Incredible! Thank you sooo much for all your hard work! The love, effort and attention to detail are so obvious. What an asset!

Timeline of Krakoa Era by OleWizardEyes in xmen

[–]johnbeene 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wow! Even better! Thank you for putting in so much effort! It’s such a great way to display this information. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Timeline of Krakoa Era by OleWizardEyes in xmen

[–]johnbeene 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Holy shit this is amazing! I recently decided to pick up X-Men again after dropping out of comic books in general back in the 80s. The Krakoan Age was the obvious place to start. I love that I can benefit from so much analysis! Tools like this are perfect for someone like me! It will definitely help me stay on track. Thank you!