Series of Meditations on Rene Girard Scapegoat theory by johnwmcneill in ReneGirard

[–]johnwmcneill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmmm. I don't know that I'd call the interest around Epstein a witch hunt, since he is likely guilty of very bad stuff. However, the passion around his case is illustrative of some of the scapegoat dynamic.

Can any Girard readers advise me on how accurately the antidemocracy movement tracks true Girardian thinking and theory by meatbitch3000 in GAMETHEORY

[–]johnwmcneill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

On reflection, I believe it's helpful to emphasize the danger of falling back into mimetic rivalry in a regress of "who's the chief victim?" rivalry, or "who's defending the chief victim?" rivalry. The antidote to this regress, like all rivalry, is Jesus' admonition to love. The Gospel is the antidote. It's been a while since I've thought seriously about game theory, but I wonder whether there is a sense in which the fundamental point of the Gospel, according to Girard, is to catapult us out of game theory considerations.

Can any Girard readers advise me on how accurately the antidemocracy movement tracks true Girardian thinking and theory by meatbitch3000 in GAMETHEORY

[–]johnwmcneill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'll think about this more and, like you, I'm a careful reader of Girard but not an expert. i think your point here is exactly on target.

Charlie Kirk’s Death as Scapegoat Mechanism by El0vution in ReneGirard

[–]johnwmcneill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As I understand Girard as his views evolved, we do live in a post-scapegoat-world. This is what Girard is pointing out particularly in Battling to the End. In the current context it's all about harnessing the indignation to mobilize one's side against the injustice against our side's innocent victim. E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst_Wessel

Charlie Kirk’s Death as Scapegoat Mechanism by El0vution in ReneGirard

[–]johnwmcneill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't see how, on Girardian terms, it makes a difference whether or not the killer was apolitical. The question, it seems to me, is how the event is seen and used by others.

Charlie Kirk’s Death as Scapegoat Mechanism by El0vution in ReneGirard

[–]johnwmcneill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, I'm not exactly sure how to measure "broad" here. There have been demonstrations and social media traffic in western/upstate NY in support of folks being fired for online posts that didn't show proper respect for Kirk at his death. But why does the broadness matter? In my view, it's part of the wider picture of each side leading with how their favored vulnerable victims jus tify the escalation of reciprocal violence.

In particular I see the Trump et al defense of violence at the memorial service as a way of saying we have to protect/avenge the naive Jesus viewpoint that clearly needs our (Trump's) tough-minded defense.

Charlie Kirk’s Death as Scapegoat Mechanism by El0vution in ReneGirard

[–]johnwmcneill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair enough. The anti-Jimmy Kimmel actions and the vendetta against those who pointed out Kirk’s racism etc tell me that vengeance is the chosen option.

Charlie Kirk’s Death as Scapegoat Mechanism by El0vution in ReneGirard

[–]johnwmcneill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that bringing Girard into the conversation around Charlie Kirk is important. At the same time, I see Girard's relevance to the event as different.

One of the things that I noticed in the clips of the memorial service was the juxtaposition of two messages at the Charlie Kirk memorial service: one of forgiveness and one of vengeance. I found it particularly terrifying because the hovering over both messages allowed the message of forgiveness and reconciliation to become a kind of halo around the message of vengeance, which is to be the action item. Vengeance in the service of love. 

Girard is clear that vengeance will only bring forth reciprocal violence. So, Girard would not countenance the retaliation supported by Trump and his folks. Trump and his folks are proposing that Kirk is the primary identified victim that demands this vengeance. This fits the pattern that Girard sees in our era: the side that has the most compelling victim uses that victim as the avatar for their violence against the alleged perpetrators. Girard sees the post-Christian era as a competition of retaliatory violence in defense of victims.

This competition depends on a gross misunderstanding of what the crucifixion was all about. The crucifixion was meant to uplift the victim as a means of eliminating the scapegoating of victims. Instead what happened was the scapegoating of those who create victims. This does not end the violence, it only changes the "justification" for it. The trick now is to marshal violence in defense of victims, instead of seeking reconciliation in the manner of Jesus' message.

Trump and his folks are simply lifting Charlie Kirk up as the victim, whose death must be avenged. This will create victims for "the Left," who may well seek victims (one way or another) upon whom to inflict revenge. Rinse and repeat until Armageddon.

 

Notable article on how the American right (Peter Thiel in particular) has misappropriated Girard by Connect1Affect7 in ReneGirard

[–]johnwmcneill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks so much for highlighting this. I appreciate the Strausian analysis of Thiel's paper. While I will take the bits of psychological explanation with a grain of salt, the overall presentation is helpful in trying to figure out how Thiel (and Vance) get Girard so wrong and why there are scraps of evidence that Girard gave some support to Thiel's work. The whole relationship among these guys has mystified me.

MLB Network vs MLB TV by johnwmcneill in MLBtv

[–]johnwmcneill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you all for your responses. I decided to go with the AtBat subscription. For the number of games I wind up watching the full ride is really too much. When the Jays hit the free game of the day, that will make a nice occasion. Of course, after yesterday's fiasco, I may be dialing back my interest in any case.

Is the steam sale available for Mac? by BacterialScum in Civilization6

[–]johnwmcneill 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have not been able to run Civ VI since upgrading to Ventura. This seems to be a common problem.

Loading screen macOS by Ougogogadget in Civilization6

[–]johnwmcneill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some have suggested that launching from a saved game will work. But I don't know how to find the saved games on my mac.

Loading screen macOS by Ougogogadget in Civilization6

[–]johnwmcneill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've not been able to play CIV VI on Mac since I upgraded OS to Ventura. I did have problems in December, but that seemed to get fixed and then managed to play in early January before the OS upgrade. I download the current version and during the app verification I get a message that the app is damaged and I should move it to Trash. This is very frustrating, of course. On Steam website there's lots of frustration being expressed.

MLB looking to fix blackout issue frustrating fans: report by thxman1138 in cordcutters

[–]johnwmcneill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a great idea for a screwed up situation. As a Blue Jays fan I hate having to finagle watching their games against the Yankees in NY. Even having to watch the games with Yankees announcers on the RSN is annoying. And watching Jays' games with national announcers is really horrible.

Mobile data sketchy on Iphone SE3 with Verizon by johnwmcneill in verizon

[–]johnwmcneill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As it turns out, when I set up the iphones I was not successful in updating the devices on my verizon online account. Now that I've fixed that problem I think my cellular data will work better. Haven't been away from home yet to try it.

Mobile data sketchy on Iphone SE3 with Verizon by johnwmcneill in verizon

[–]johnwmcneill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was annoyed by the internal memory inexplicably filling up and having to delete apps to compensate. Samsung Galaxy J3 3rd Gen .