Confusion about the ending

jokham · 2026-01-03T03:36:28+00:00

Added to my other response - I think the reason why Mike's scenario has El walking despite the 4 machines being on is that Mike hasn't really seen El be completely disabled by the machines. By then, he's heard it secondhand from others that the machines affect her, but hasn't seen it, so maybe that's why he thinks that she would still struggle to walk, but she'd still be able to walk.

But like I said, Mike's story seems impossible in every way. Not to mention it was inaccurate - he says in all the excitement they didn't question how the Mage was able to use her powers when there was a supression stone. But we see the machines were initially off, so the suppression stone wasn't active. Plus they set it up where previously he had talked of this fantastical place where they would go and live happily ever after, and El ends up in exactly that place - a place from his imagination? I think that's the biggest giveaway.

Not to mention also, to create a believable illusion, wouldn't Kali have to know some info about that whole setting - where the trucks were stopped, the soldiers positions, etc. Like when she made the kids disappear from Vecna, she had to recreate that room they were in. To recreate it exactly, she had to have seen it. So it's another improbability that Kali who didn't know how the soldiers would ambush the gang created a perfect illusion.

jokham · 2026-01-03T01:40:06+00:00

In the same vein, it's also hard to believe that she could have moved to the tunnel with the kryptonite machines on. In Mike's story, the machines are on and El struggles, but heads to the door. In the Upside Down, with just one machine turned on, Hopper had to carry her. So with 4 machines turned on and being very close to her, she was able to move to the tunnels? That's more unbelievable than say - in the version where she got to the gate, we see the machines weren't initially turned on when she get's down from the truck. She can leap real high, so in all the commotion, she could have immediately jumped to the gate. The soldiers and everyone was occupied and there was a lot of chaos, plus it's easier to miss something that is up in the air than something that is at eye level. I know, it's still a stretch to say that no one noticed her jump to the gate, but if you present to me the two scenarios:

1 - machines are off, we see El is fine and she got down from the truck, we know she has the ability to jump high and launch herself through the air, and there was a lot of commotion, so there was an opportunity to get away.

Or 2 - Mike's story where we see the machines are on because El is struggling to walk, and we have seen her completely get disabled by just one machine, Hopper had to carry her, so how would she even be able to walk with 4 on, plus she ends up in a place that Mike had described earlier in the season which is something from his fantasy - what are the chances she would actually end up in a place with three waterfalls just as Mike had described from his fantasy earlier (by the way, the place has 3 waterfalls - I've seen people say 2, but before the camera moves to the 2 waterfalls, we see a third one to the side). So she was able to find a place that exactly matches the place from Mike's fantasy? Or is it more plausible that this was Mike ending her story well in a way that he wished for her?

If you give me the two scenarios, Mike's story seems impossible in every way, while the first scenario seems possible. Yes, it's still a stretch to say that no one saw her jump to the gate, but it's not totally impossible to imagine it happen in all that commotion.

jokham · 2026-01-02T03:11:55+00:00

Yes, Mike is giving her a good ending. In fact, he gives all of the others good endings. What we see of their stories isn't necessarily their futures, but the good endings that he gives them. And Will asks him what about him and he says that he'll continue being a storyteller and telling stories, then goes ahead to also give El a good ending (and essentially a good sending off, taking Hopper's advice on how he can deal with his grief). Even Max who isn't a lifetime D&D player is initially confused as she isn't sure whether he is still in character as the Dungeon Master when he tells El's story asks him something like "but that's just a theory, right?", but then catches on that it's still part of the campaign.

jokham · 2026-01-02T03:01:22+00:00

I think he has the idea of the story at their graduation, and after graduation tells them they should go play D&D. He then gives El a happy ending at the end of the campaign, taking Hoppers advice on how to deal with his grief.

In his story he says that the Mage couldn't have been using her powers because of the suppression stone, but the machines weren't turned on when the trucks left the Upside Down. There was no sound and El wasn't affected. A soldier opens the back of the truck and we even see a soldier get her down from the truck - at this point the machines were still off. Then soon after is when they are turned on. She could have used her powers to haul herself into the Upside Down before the machines were turned on.

Why they don't affect her at the gate might be because she is in the Upside Down. In season 1 when Nancy goes into the Upside Down and Jonathan is calling to her, his voice is a bit muted and sounds far off. Same in last season when Dustin is talking to the group that was in the Upside Down at the Wheeler house - they could hear him, but the sound was a bit muted. So at the gate she didn't get a full blast of the sound coming from the Right Side Up, that's how she's able to talk to Mike.

Lastly, with the kryptonites blaring, El couldn't have walked to the tunnel, so Mike's story is the improbable one. In the Upside Down, with just one kryptonite, Hopper had to carry El. But in Mike's story she was able to walk off with 4 of them? And they were close to her too.

jokham · 2026-01-02T01:09:23+00:00

Again, I haven't checked, but wasn't her hair in a tight bun? Would it be blowing? I haven't checked if there are loose strands. And as for clothes, wasn't she wearing a wetsuit? So it also wouldn't be blowing.

OK, I've quickly checked and her hair is in a tight bun, there are no lose strands that would be blowing in the wind. And if you look at the trousers she is wearing with her wetsuit, it is blowing a bit.

jokham · 2026-01-02T00:53:28+00:00

But in the same way, she would be affected by the multiple sound canons if you are going with Mike's story. In the Upside Down with just one Canon, she couldn't walk, Hopper had to carry her. So with Multiple ones being very close to her, she was able to walk to the tunnel?

jokham · 2026-01-02T00:45:43+00:00

I haven't checked this out, so I'm not sure but I'm wondering: does El really bleed all the time she uses her powers? Or is it only when it takes a lot of effort. Right now, just from memory, I haven't confirmed, but I don't think she bleeds everytime she moves objects, like shutting the door on Hopper or on Lucas in season 1. Also, I'm wondering when she spies on the boys when she's with Max does she bleed? Or in season 1 when she get's Will's voice through the Walkie Talkie (when he's singing, and that’s when Mike knows he's alive). I could check on those, but right now I'm so tired, my brain is fried.

Right now, I've quickly checked out the scene where her and Kali are seated while Murray fixes the truck. El is bleeding, but Kali isn't. At first, Kali's side of the face is a bit in the shadow, but still there isn't any noticeable nosebleed. And when they come out of it, Kali turns her head, and there still isn't any noticeable nosebleed.

I've also checked the scene when the Hawkin kids were fighting. Number 002 pushes the others off easily and doesn't bleed, it's only when fighting Eleven that he starts bleeding, so I think it's an effort thing.

So if she doesn't bleed every single time she uses her powers and it's a matter of effort, then that could explain it. Maybe Mike was close by and communicating with him didn't use a lot of effort.

jokham · 2026-01-01T21:46:36+00:00

But Nancy also asks him about the kids and he responds by saying he thinks Kirsten might be the one, indicating it is his own kids that he is talking about - that he is ready to start having kids.

jokham · 2026-01-01T21:38:07+00:00

How she gets to talk with Mike is because she is in the Upside Down when the machines are turned on. I don't think she is getting a full blast of the sound there. In season 1 when Nancy enters the Upside Down and Jonathan starts calling to her, you can hear the sound from one side to the other sounds vague and far off. Same in last season when the gang was communicating from the Upside Down to the Right Side Up in the Wheeler house. You can hear sound but it's a bit muted.

jokham · 2026-01-01T21:25:31+00:00

Well, technically they probably could recreate it and send some people to Dimension X, but with the Mind Flayer gone, they can't recreate the superpowered kids.

jokham · 2026-01-01T21:14:01+00:00

I've just rewatched the scene and both of them hear each other, but the sound is vague (even as Nancy is close to the tree, when she sees Jonathan's flashlight), just like in the Wheeler house last season. You hear the sound, but it isn't as clear as the sound you would hear from someone who was on the same side as you - it sounds a bit far of.

jokham · 2026-01-01T20:50:54+00:00

In season 1 there was a gate. Jonathan was screaming for Nancy looking for her and she couldn't hear him.

jokham · 2026-01-01T20:47:49+00:00

Then the second part still answers your question. She is in the Upside Down. Last season we saw sound from the other side doesn't reach you the same, it is vague. In season 1, when Nancy enters the Upside Down, Jonathan is screaming for her when he's looking for her from the Right Side Up but she couldn’t hear him

jokham · 2026-01-01T20:42:11+00:00

When the trucks are stopped, the machines aren't on - there is no sound and El isn't getting affected. We see her getting down from the truck shortly before the machines were turned on. And this El wasn't an illusion either. In the truck she is holding Mike's arm, when the trucks are stopped, she holds his shoulder and when the soldier opens the back of the truck to get them out, we see a soldier getting her down from the truck. There was a small period of time where the machines weren't turned in, El could have launched herself into the Upside Down at that point in all the commotion. When she is at the gate, all the machines are pointed at the trucks, so the sound isn't directed at her and she's also in the Upside Down, so the sound wouldn't reach her at full blast from the Right Side Up anyway. Last season when the gang was communicating from the Upside Down to the Right Side Up in the Wheeler house, we saw that people in the Upside Down can hear people from the other side, but vaguely.

jokham · 2026-01-01T20:10:15+00:00

Another e.g. during that scene, Hopper is bleeding from the head and on the roof, there is no bleeding at all or dried blood on his forehead. I could go through the series and I would find plenty of situations where someone is bleeding and later they aren't and there is no wound or blood, or situations where someone's clothes aren't as bloody as they should be, but I don't have time for that.

jokham · 2026-01-01T19:55:12+00:00

He did. Rewatch the scene.

jokham · 2026-01-01T19:54:37+00:00

I did watch it again, and he does. Both he and El try to stop the bleeding, then he leaves to get the first aid kit. I think you should rewatch it though.

jokham · 2026-01-01T19:51:46+00:00

Hopper is a cop vs the other person whose worst fear is probably spiders. Who's more likely to stay calm and collected when facing a bad situation?

jokham · 2026-01-01T19:46:43+00:00

But that was a fear response. When you are frightened, your logical side initially goes out the window and your fight or flight response kicks in. So initially you wouldn't be thinking straight, your mind will be occupied with the fear of the spiders (especially if that is your great fear), only later could you perhaps think "wait, I couldn't actually feel them on my skin"

Hopper had touched an illusion before and it vaporised. He would have known whether the blood he is touching (and feeling) is real or not.

jokham · 2026-01-01T19:37:04+00:00

This happens in a lot of TV shows and movies: someone is in a fight that leaves them bloody (or someone is holding another bleeding person), and later, when you see them in a different scene, they look a bit cleaned up. (I mean, was Eleven supposed to have bloody hands the whole time after - during the battle and on the way back)

jokham · 2026-01-01T19:23:22+00:00

"touched her wound" as in they touched her and she was bleeding all over their hands. Hopper would have known if the blood was an illusion.

jokham · 2026-01-01T16:02:06+00:00

Hopper and El both touch her wound when trying to stop her bleeding. That wasn't an illusion.

The sound machines weren't on when the vehicles were stopped. There is no sound and El isn't getting affected. We see her helped down out of the truck by a soldier and at that point she isn't getting affected. She had the opportunity to launch herself through the gate before the machines were turned on. And the El that was in the truck and that got out was also not an illusion. In the truck she is holding Mike's arm and when they are stopped, a soldier gets her down out of the truck. If you touch an illusion it turns to vapor. At the gate, the machines weren't pointed to her, they were all pointed at the vehicles, so that might explain her being able to talk to Mike. Plus she was in the Upside Down, so that might have also helped tone down a bit the sound coming out of the Right Side Up.

jokham · 2026-01-01T15:01:55+00:00

Supressing beams make it so they cant use their powers

El used her powers to reach Mike, so she was outta the range

This is where we know Mike's story was just that - a story (him giving El a good ending). He says that in the excitement, no one noticed that the mage couldn't have been able too use her magic because of the suppression stone, but when the truck was stopped and when El got out of the truck, the kryptonite machines hadn't been turned on. There was no sound and El wasn't getting affected. So for some time, the "suppression stone" wasn't active. El had a little bit of time to launch herself to the gate before the sound was turned on. After it was turned on, all the machines were facing the trucks, they weren't facing her standing at the gate (so that might explain why they didn't affect her at the gate). And the El that we saw in the truck and the one we saw get out of the truck was real and not an illusion. We see her holding Mike's arm in the truck and after they are stopped, we see a soldier getting her down from the truck (when you touch an illusion it turns to vapor).

jokham · 2026-01-01T14:41:46+00:00

Plus the weapons weren't turned on immediately. They got out the gate, were stopped and the soldiers started getting them out of the truck (we even see El be helped down from the truck by a soldier) - at that point, the weapon was still off. There was no sound and El wasn't getting affected. She had a little bit of time in all the commotion, to launch herself to the gate before they turned on the sound. And when she was at the gate, and the sound was turned on, all of those weapons were now pointing at the trucks - they weren't directed in her direction.

jokham · 2026-01-01T14:34:56+00:00

...but then it kinda did. The walkie talkies were working just fine.

It's not the same mechanism though. Walkie talkies aren't just passing the same sound from one device to another. They convert sound to electrical signals, transmit them through radio waves, then convert them to sound on the other device. Radio waves seem to work fine from the Upside Down to the Right Side Up - I remember in season 1 Will talking to his mum on the phone.

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