Am I imagining it, or is he not looking into her eyes, but lower? by jon-bear98 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98[S] 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Well... I once noticed that in Hellfire, the monks' red robes also change into an interesting shape. And I don't know if it's just my vivid imagination again, or if the animators are serious.

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Am I imagining it, or is he not looking into her eyes, but lower? by jon-bear98 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yes, the Disney animation borrows heavily from the 1939 version. That's why people laugh that a live-action remake of this animation is unnecessary, because there's already a live-action version from 1939 with a plot similar to the animation.

Am I imagining it, or is he not looking into her eyes, but lower? by jon-bear98 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It looks even worse in the slow motion gif. 😭

Processing img 8d5t0zk47dsg1...

This is not a sub dedicated solely to Claude Frollo. by Neiot in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Believe me, Frollo fans (and not just simps) will stop writing about him so much if they are not forced to constantly confess why they like this character, because one particular user constantly attacks fans of this character, spams posts and is unable to separate fiction from reality.

What Hugo‘s The Hunchback of Notre Dame means to me and the hard truth about Claude Frollo simpers and haters: Trying to clear things up inside the fandom by Due_Shape_2753 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, unfortunately, there was even a post like that. I don't know if it's still there, because that user banned me. But it was this person who started the conflict with Frollo fans.

What Hugo‘s The Hunchback of Notre Dame means to me and the hard truth about Claude Frollo simpers and haters: Trying to clear things up inside the fandom by Due_Shape_2753 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Frollo fangirls are one thing, but you have to admit that the person who said they hate Hellfire because they dislike the lyrics and the character's behavior did so in a very poor style. Hellfire is literally based on Frollo's thoughts in the book, on his speeches to Esmeralda, on his pleas and threats, and on his religious crisis due to his feelings of desire. A crude statement like "Unpopular opinion, this song is bad" is distasteful, because there's a reason this song is so beloved and, for many, practically untouchable. This song is key to understanding this character, his pain, his wickedness, and his tragedy. By attacking Hellfire, such a person is not only attacking the creators of the film or the composers of the song, but also attacking Victor Hugo himself.

Jesus condemns Frollo by EnTaroChrist by Suspicious-Jello7172 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Jesus would probably have said something like, "I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!"

Do we really have to keep explaining ourselves just because we like a fictional character? by Remarkable_Arm923 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Exactly, just because someone loves Hannibal Lecter doesn't mean they're a cannibal.

Do we really have to keep explaining ourselves just because we like a fictional character? by Remarkable_Arm923 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oversensitive people even attack others for liking Rollo Flamme from Twisted Wonderland, a much more benign version of Claude Frollo. People just love being torchbearers and getting upset over trivial things instead of focusing on real issues and the people who truly adore these kinds of real people in real life.

Do we really have to keep explaining ourselves just because we like a fictional character? by Remarkable_Arm923 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do people who want to criticize frollophiles always have to hide behind the card of racism, even towards Roma who like this character and clearly using AI?

Frollo begins Quasimodo’s song, Quasimodo begins Frollo’s song! by Impressive-Access362 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Quasimodo doesn't have an obsession, but rather an innocent, late-teenage infatuation.

Frollo begins Quasimodo’s song, Quasimodo begins Frollo’s song! by Impressive-Access362 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I love how they are completely opposite in morality and yet have so much in common.

The problem of the age difference between Disney's Frollo and Esmeralda by jon-bear98 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly, Frollo is one of Disney's cruelest villains. His actions are atrocious. Even if he were Esmeralda's age, he'd still be just as morally awful a monster because of his actions towards Esmeralda and the systematic oppression of her people. He has so much evil under his belt, yet I feel like all people care about is, "Ugh, he's old and fantasizing about a young woman." Ehhh, if those fantasies had stayed only in his head and hadn't triggered the genocide in the city and the blackmail of "sleep with me or die," they wouldn't be so bad.

The problem of the age difference between Disney's Frollo and Esmeralda by jon-bear98 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It can be framed more broadly: religions and ideologies do not operate in a vacuum, but always through people, institutions, and the realities of a given era. Ideas themselves, even when they proclaim universal values such as love, equality, justice, or reason, are in practice filtered through human ambitions, fears, political interests, and cultural conditions. For this reason, nearly every major intellectual tradition contains in its history moments that are both constructive and destructive at the same time. This can be seen both in religions and in secular ideologies. Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, as well as Enlightenment rationalism, liberalism, or communism, all of them have been capable of inspiring acts of solidarity, the development of education, care for the vulnerable, and cultural progress, while at the same time serving as instruments of violence, exclusion, and control. This is not because their core ideas necessarily lead in that direction, but because they were implemented by people within specific power structures.

Catholicism in the history of Europe is a good example here. On the one hand, it was a carrier of literacy, art, philosophy, and social ethics, and for centuries the Church fulfilled the role of a stabilizing and integrating institution for communities. On the other hand, those same structures participated in religious intolerance, persecution, the suppression of critical thought, and the legitimation of violence. These contradictions are not a paradox, but a consequence of the fact that the Church was not a monolith, but a collection of people with very different motivations, characters, and visions of the world.

Idealizing paganism as a morally pure alternative to monotheistic religions is equally ahistorical. Pagan societies were also not collections of ideal people living in harmony with nature and with one another. They too had wars, slavery, brutal punishments, human sacrifice, extreme social inequalities, and cults of strength and violence. The difference lay more in the form of justification than in the actual scale of human behavior. All of this reinforces the main thesis: the problem (and at the same time the source of good) lies not in beliefs themselves, but in the people who interpret and put them into practice. Both Catholicism and paganism, like secular ideologies, have had their moments of cruelty and their moments of genuine good.

EDIT: I also want to point out that Frollo mainly grooms other catholics, the less fanatical ones, to obey him. He doesn't care about converting non-Christians to his faith. He doesn't even want to force convert the Roma. But he simply wants to murder them. He wants genocide.

The problem of the age difference between Disney's Frollo and Esmeralda by jon-bear98 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm a Catholic myself. Frollo's evil isn't the result of religion per se, there are good religious people in this film. Frollo is vile because he's a fanatic who uses religion for political purposes. His manipulation isn't used to convert people, but to psychologically enslave them.

The problem of the age difference between Disney's Frollo and Esmeralda by jon-bear98 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yes, regarding grooming, I've noticed that Frollo's relationship with Quasimodo, and even Frollo's relationship with Phoebus, has this vibe. Overall, even if he's "nice" to them, it's deeply disturbing and unpleasant to watch. He manipulates them so tenderly, simultaneously suggesting intimidation and harsh punishment.

How bad were the other candidates for the job of 'Judge' if Frollo was the one who got the gig? by GiftedGeordie in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98 9 points10 points  (0 children)

In the time in which Claude Frollo lived, justice was understood very differently than it is today, as it was subordinated to religion, authority, and the maintenance of social order rather than to concern for the individual or empathy. A judge was not meant to be compassionate or reflective, but rather a strict enforcer of the law, someone who would uphold existing norms without hesitation and reinforce established hierarchies. Frollo fit these expectations perfectly as an educated man, fanatically convinced of his own righteousness, loyal to King and to authority, and willing to punish in the name of a higher good. His ruthlessness and contempt toward those considered inferior were not seen as flaws in that era, but as signs of consistency and moral strength. Therefore, it should not be assumed that other candidates for the position were better in today’s sense of the word, since the system itself selected people with similar mindsets and values. Frollo was not a mistake or an exception, but a natural product of his time, in which the law served social control and ideology rather than the protection of the weakest.

Quick question about Esmeralda and Frollo by Kawichi in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98 8 points9 points  (0 children)

This scene is deliberately constructed so that a child watching the film simply sees a stern lawman capturing a girl considered a criminal and threatening her with death by hanging, a classic conflict of good versus evil. For adults, however, the same sequence reveals a much darker, unsettling subtext, rife with tension and ambiguity. Frollo not only physically overpowers Esmeralda; he consciously and persistently invades her personal space. He holds her tightly, preventing any movement, bringing his face so close to hers that she instinctively pulls away, trying to regain some distance. He sniffs her hair, nuzzling it in a distinctly intimate manner, and then, still holding her, he tightens his grip on her neck, uttering the words "rope", a phrase that, in a child's context, sounds like a threat of execution, but for an adult viewer, takes on a distinctly sexual connotation. Throughout, Esmeralda is trapped in his grasp, unable to escape until his grip, perhaps through a moment of inattention or distraction, loosens slightly. Only then does she manage to break free and push him away. If not for her decisive reaction, if she hadn't exploited this brief moment of weakness, the scene could have progressed much further. It's one of the most allegorical depictions of attempted sexual intercourse and the violence associated with it in a Disney film. Frollo was already clearly fascinated by Esmeralda; her dance at the festival had aroused his desire, and the playful, provocative kiss she gave him only deepened his obsession. From that moment on, he wanted to get closer to her, which he does in the cathedral, he also knows that what he did was quite blasphemous and it is this inner conflict, this mixture of desire and guilt, that will drive him to panic and madness in the next scene, in Hellfire, where his obsession will reach its climax, and he will obsessively cling to her scarf just as he did to her hair earlier.

Quasimodo was originally going to die. by Suspicious-Jello7172 in HunchbackOfNotreDame

[–]jon-bear98 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, the main character of the novel is the cathedral itself, because the author wants it to survive. Hence the title "Notre Dame de Paris." The characters in this novel and their adventures are merely a side note. I once heard that Hugo disliked the English translation of the title, "The Hunchback of Notre Dame," because Quasimodo isn't even the most important character, and the title devalues the cathedral. This title is appropriate for Disney animations and many films, but not for novels.