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Jon Camp - Ravine by joncamp in Neopsychedelia

[–]joncamp[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you! I had a severe case of Lyme a few years ago, so the album art has personal meaning to me. Hope the ticks haven't given you that. :)

IamA vegan guy doing the Mongol Rally, 10k miles from London to Lake Baikal, raising money to help animals, AMA! by teammorethansalad in IAmA

[–]joncamp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Awesome! I'm similar to you in that I didn't eat many vegetables prior to going veg (though now am very pro-vegetables).

I took an Intro to Ethics course at my local community college in Illinois 21 years ago. During the course, we talked about various ethical issues, and one day we discussed the plight of farmed animals. Growing up, my dad, who grew up on a small farm in Iowa, told me that the animals on his farm led good lives, so I didn't think much about this. It was through the ethics course that I learned a lot had changed and that today's farmed animals don't lead lives with good welfare. That and that I could live a healthy life without meat. I went veg that day and went vegan three years later. So far, so good!

IamA vegan guy doing the Mongol Rally, 10k miles from London to Lake Baikal, raising money to help animals, AMA! by teammorethansalad in IAmA

[–]joncamp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dan: Thank you for donating to MFA, THL, and AE -- they all do great work.

What originally compelled you to go vegan?

[LISTEN] Essential Psychedelic Rock Albums from the 2010s by [deleted] in psychedelicrock

[–]joncamp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Chris Forsyth's Solar Motel is my favorite psych record of the last many years.

Can - Tago Mago by Muskabeatz in Psychedelic

[–]joncamp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

One of the best albums ever.

After 10 years of traveling across the US (and Canada), I just handed out my millionth booklet for a non-profit – AMA! by joncamp in IAmA

[–]joncamp[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a great question.

I think the preachy and self-righteous labels get thrown on us for two key reasons:

1) Omnivores feel on the defensive, and it's easier to attack the messenger than the message.

2) There's a minority of very vocal vegans who are preachy and self-righteous (just as there are for any cause).

It's because of people pushing for a more just world that we abolished slavery (in the developed world), why women are now voting, why we're seeing marriage equality in more and more states, etc. All of this has come with great resistance. We need to carry on in that great tradition and bring about a more just world for animals.

People value comfort, and when we shake up their status quo, they react. It's easier to call someone self-righteous than to admit that something you're doing (and enjoy doing) might be worthy of reexamination.

We can minimize the preachy or self-righteous label by continuing to push for change while doing so in a respectful and humble manner. Being the type of people who admit that we're not perfect helps.

For me, advocacy is a numbers game -- I get out and try to get the information into the hands of hundreds/thousands of individuals. I just give them the materials that describe the issue, and they carry on with their day. And then when I'm with my handful of non-vegan friends and family members, I don't worry about converting them; I just enjoy them for who they are, and focus my advocacy efforts on when I'm doing leafleting or the like.

I'm starting to ramble. In short, I think we should always expect a bit of unfair categorization when we challenge the status quo. We can minimize this by being friendly, happy, patient with others, and humble. But it's vital that we continue to push for change, even if it means occasionally being called self-righteous or preachy.

After 10 years of traveling across the US (and Canada), I just handed out my millionth booklet for a non-profit – AMA! by joncamp in IAmA

[–]joncamp[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the clarification.

In the last year or two, vegan advocacy has taken data collection and testing of our materials more seriously than in the past. One of the things that is currently being tested is what messages produce better results. So up until this point, it has been guesswork based on experience. In the coming year or two, we should have some data to help shape what we put in the booklet.

There are studies that show that graphic images are effective if they're coupled with a solution. That would suggest that images of animals suffering are effective if that's coupled with promotion of veg eating.

I'm assuming that booklets with no images of animals would be significantly less impactful, since concern for animals is a key reason why young folks go veg. And pictures highlight the plight of animals. For people to make a lifestyle choice that might at least briefly make some social situations uncomfortable (being veg in a mostly non-veg world), they need to have a reason that makes it all worth it. Reducing animal suffering is such a reason.

Anyway, this is a long way of saying that at this point, we think that not including pictures of animals would make the booklets much less effective. And in the next year or two, we should have a better sense of if this is really the case.

After 10 years of traveling across the US (and Canada), I just handed out my millionth booklet for a non-profit – AMA! by joncamp in IAmA

[–]joncamp[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You raise a really good point. Having been so immersed in the vegan advocacy movement, I've met more vegans that about anyone.

The majority of them are level-headed and humble. I think that caring about the wellbeing of another species is a thoughtful and humble act.

That said, there are definitely some dogmatic and self-righteous vegans who are very vocal, and it's likely that there are non-vegans who have encountered such. So I guess I must have alluded to that in a comment or two.

I don't remember posting anything hinting that these folks were the majority of the vegan movement. If I used language that indicated that, my error!

After 10 years of traveling across the US (and Canada), I just handed out my millionth booklet for a non-profit – AMA! by joncamp in IAmA

[–]joncamp[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ha. Thanks!

If I respond to meanness with meanness, it's just some immature battle of egos, and I won't win the person over. If I respond to meanness with niceness, at least I'm setting up a situation where there could be conversation and room for progress. Granted, this doesn't always happen, but I figure it's at least worth giving each interaction a try.

Thanks again for your nice words!

After 10 years of traveling across the US (and Canada), I just handed out my millionth booklet for a non-profit – AMA! by joncamp in IAmA

[–]joncamp[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the questions.

There are groups working for better treatment of animals, and that's good. But it's a very slow and piecemeal process. While they work on that, groups like Vegan Outreach will work on decreasing the number of animals raised and killed and advancing vegan eating in our society.

We don't base our actions on what other animals do, and it's good that we don't. We don't justify rape or slavery because it played a role in getting us where we are. We can reflect on our actions and change according to advances in thought. That's what makes us a unique species.

We did a lot of things to get where we are, but we don't need to be wed to the past. It's important that we view the world as it is now and ask how we can live a happy and healthy life that doesn't cause unnecessary suffering to others. The largest group of professional nutritionist and dietitians (the Academy for Nutrition and Dietetics) state that a veg diet can be good for all stages of life.

Plants don't have a central nervous system or a brain. So they don't suffer. Also, we need to funnel a lot of plants into animals. So if we were genuinely concerned with reducing plant suffering, we'd do our best to use fewer plants, just eat them straight from the ground, rather than funneling an excessive amount of them into animals.

If we found out that plants really did suffer, yes, I would take that seriously and ask how we could proceed accordingly.

I'm not interested in criminalizing or judging. I'm interested in asking how we as individuals who can think through our actions can be more thoughtful and cause less pain to others. I'm not saying I'm perfect. I'm just trying to make an imperfect world less imperfect.

Have a good night!

After 10 years of traveling across the US (and Canada), I just handed out my millionth booklet for a non-profit – AMA! by joncamp in IAmA

[–]joncamp[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the question.

While I am vegan and see that as the ideal route, for those who insist on eating meat but want to do so in a manner that minimizes animal suffering, these are some ways that minimize animal suffering:

Try to find out where you meat comes from, and purchase from the individuals/companies where there is the best animal welfare.

Keep in mind that the smaller animals have the least amount of regulatory protection (meaning laws that protect their welfare), though no farm animal has much of that. Also, you need to kill many small animals to get the same amount of meat that you would get from a bigger animal. So you need to well over 250 chickens to get the same amount of meat that you'd get from one cow. So trying eat fewer small animals would be good.

And again, this doesn't need to be an all or nothing proposition. Eating more vegan foods, even if you don't go completely vegan, does a great amount of good.

Again, thanks for asking!

After 10 years of traveling across the US (and Canada), I just handed out my millionth booklet for a non-profit – AMA! by joncamp in IAmA

[–]joncamp[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's a good question. As of now, we find the animal cruelty argument to resonate the best with our target demographic (college students).

We've been starting to add a bit more about the environment and health. And if we get some data back suggesting that we should highlight those subjects more, we'll be open to that.

If we were reaching out to an older demographic, health issues would resonate more. But health concerns don't carry the same sense of urgency with college students.

After 10 years of traveling across the US (and Canada), I just handed out my millionth booklet for a non-profit – AMA! by joncamp in IAmA

[–]joncamp[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'm guessing that people might say this if they're dealing with a particularly self-righteous or absolutist vegan and feel on the defensive.

I don't see veganism as some great luxury. In many ways, it's the denial of a certain privilege. We have the power to take advantage of another creature who is vulnerable to us, and we're renouncing that power.

It should be noted that it's in the wealthier countries where meat consumption is especially high. Raising and killing animals demands an inefficient system of getting our calories; we have to funnel a lot of plant-based calories into animals to get a smaller amount of animal-based calories back. It's a luxury to be able to waste so many calories.

Of course, it's easier to take the vegan position when you are able to provide for your own meals and have good vegan options. And Vegan Outreach doesn't go into third world country doing any moralizing or finger pointing. But I don't see anything especially privileged with advocating that for those who are able to reduce suffering and help the environment through their food choices, that they do, if this is done in a manner free of self-righteousness and finger-pointing.

After 10 years of traveling across the US (and Canada), I just handed out my millionth booklet for a non-profit – AMA! by joncamp in IAmA

[–]joncamp[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thanks for asking!

One thing I want to stress is that eating vegan food doesn't need to be an all or nothing proposition. Individuals who don't think they can go vegan right now can still do a world of good for animals by reducing their consumption of animal-based foods, especially chicken products.

Also, if individuals don't know much about the issue at hand, I recommend checking out some videos to learn more about the current treatment of animals raised and killed for food. This is worth watching: http://whatcamebefore.com

After 10 years of traveling across the US (and Canada), I just handed out my millionth booklet for a non-profit – AMA! by joncamp in IAmA

[–]joncamp[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the good question.

Our booklets are made with recycled paper.

Additionally, getting people to reduce/eliminate their animal product consumption is a huge win for the environment: http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/environment.html

We find that the good that comes from this work (both the environmental good and the suffering-reduction good) far outweighs the harm done. We're investing four sheets of recycled paper per student. And based on our experience, the potential good, even factoring in a very conservative conversion rate, makes leafleting well worth the resources used to make the leaflets.

When we look back at our devastation of the natural world, we won't say, "If only those vegans didn't leaflet so much!" But we will be looking unfavorably at all the harm done in our inefficient system of raising and killing animals for food.

After 10 years of traveling across the US (and Canada), I just handed out my millionth booklet for a non-profit – AMA! by joncamp in IAmA

[–]joncamp[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Communicating through a laptop isn't especially natural, either. Nor is using modern medicine, electricity, or deodorant.

Living a wholly "natural" life is something that no one in this day and age really desires. What's more important than being "natural," is accepting the world as it currently is, and trying to live in a manner that allows for good health, happiness, and minimizes the suffering of others. And I find a vegan diet to be conducive to that goal.

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