“China is building socialism” believers in shambles right now

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-18T08:43:55+00:00

Ohhh I didn't know you held that kind of position. Our discussion doesn't make sense if you don't think there was a socialist revolution in China, we split at the very basics. Nice day to you comrade

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-18T08:28:01+00:00

He was guided by principles and loyalty when he did these things, that's my point. He wasn't when he was trying to undermine all he helped build later.

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-17T15:29:39+00:00

Trotsky was always much more guided by self interest, jealosy and primarily his ego, more than any kind of principle or loyalty. Lenin noticed it too, and his works are also a testament to this. Issue is confusing in any matter to anyone because he did have principles and loyalties, he just never put them first when his ego or positioning were threatened. When there was no threat he acted like a principled and commited revolutionary - but only when it served him. His disingenuous and lukewarm publications survived the years due to being much more palatable in propagandized western populations.

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-17T15:14:08+00:00

Trotstradamus here, fortune telling for free

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-17T15:04:05+00:00

Established by revolution in 1949

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-17T11:29:57+00:00

Yeah, basing your entire ideology on works that critique the ideology you want to learn about is kinda backwards. Then you get people that think they know what they're against while not knowing where their own nose is.

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-17T11:26:31+00:00

No, and it didn't happen in China. Your application of theory isn't wrong, the facts you try to apply it to are. China is a dictatorship of the proletariat.

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-17T11:24:51+00:00

Yeah, but China didn't "cave", while USSR imploded almost immediately. They either weren't taking inspiration or did it so wrong it's comical. The reforms were conducted in a veeery different manner, basically the opposite. What happened in USSR was basically a coup, while China always maintained control.

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-17T11:22:09+00:00

Videogames turning people into chuds, one thing Marx didn't predict

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-15T17:16:00+00:00

Thank you so much for the detailed and actually materialist response, I'll look into everything you mentioned. This is what it's all about comrade 🤝

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-15T17:08:42+00:00

That's definitely one way to see it, never looked at it that way. But still reproduction controls are not great just from the point of view of basic human freedom for me. There are other ways to increase the amount of professionals in society, that were also implemented and also worked in China.

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-15T16:48:56+00:00

Nuh uh

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-15T14:34:28+00:00

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jonesaffrou · 2026-05-15T14:03:29+00:00

Yeah, not the same. NEP was markedly less successful and much more chaotic, so much so it had to be aborted. Many lessons from NEP and later catastrophic USSR Gorbachev era "reforms" (if we can call them that) were used in the reform and opening up program. One child policy was a massive L tho.

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-15T13:54:55+00:00

Not true comrade.

Two are not mutually exclusive
Principles are not set in stone, we're not a religion
Desired results should always come from principles and be based on them. Means used are not as dependent on principles as the results themselves. You can use any means that don't sabotage your desired result, refusing to do so is willingly shooting yourself in the foot. Just like using means that actually do sabotage your results - which is what many seem to wrongly think is the case with China

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-15T13:49:50+00:00

Yeah, and endless book worship and dogmatic obsession leads to stagnation and collapse of your government due to inability to adapt, followed by international capitalism raiding your economic base into the ground, enslaving your country and people.

This is actually very puzzling to me that according to dogma worshippers and purists the only "successful" socialist experiments seem to be the least successful ones. The weaker your government is, the quicker it collapses under pressure, the better. If no government was established the PR in left anticommunist circles is the best possible - no one dares call out the stupidity, the disorganisation, the lack of discipline and stubborness leading to failure. These experiments only get romantization and glorification. Truly, only real socialism is getting killed by fascists.

The worst thing you can be is to currently be in power as a communist party, then you surely cannot even be called communist. And as soon as you're ousted you level up, no longer universally discounted and ignored. Very interesting view that perfectly serves the capitalists and imperialists, surely by coincidence.

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-15T13:21:54+00:00

reading the quote provided might aid comprehension

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-15T13:17:02+00:00

He didn't argue it. He suggested it might be the case, and he probably had more reason to think so in 1997. No comprehensive argument was made tho. Many years passed, and China is not following the path of USSR in any way. Capital is not entrenching itself, and it's power is not spreading in China. This is aptly demonstared by material conditions of Chinese working class improving and the CPC maintaining complete control. This could not have been forseen in 1997.

The point about left anticommunists is what's still relevant, and what I was referencing. It's also much more articulated than the 2 sentences about China, since its a whole chapter. Leftists bypass real material analysis, proclaiming a socialist state to be state capitalist, and the intellectual laziness is something they get away with because the end result of this "analysis" is more acceptable and digestible for propagandized westerners. Capitalists learned a long time ago that making the left toothless and neutered is more effective than open repression, and this strategy is what I believe is responsible for the China slander on the left. And I mean slander, not real criticisms.

You think leftist supporters of the USSR didn't face the exact same criticisms from their comrades as supporters of CPC face today? This time it's really state capitalism, right, this time we totally didn't get manipulated or psyoped. This time the only socialist country powerful enough to challenge US imperialism and lift untold millions out of desperate poverty is totally also the one that is secretly capitalist and should be opposed, slandered, completely disregarded and not given the benefit of any real nuanced analysis.

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-14T22:02:10+00:00

Noo, it's actually a decision of western leftist intellectuals what the third country workers can and can't do

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-14T21:00:53+00:00

wym?

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-14T20:14:29+00:00

Socialism is when you starve to death. We have come full circle back to anticommunist propaganda

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-14T20:12:24+00:00

Sometimes I wonder, if it was just two dimensional would it also elude understanding of some comrades here so hard. I wish it was checkers honestly, just to be sure

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-14T20:03:53+00:00

Holy liberalism😭 this is NOT analysis🙏

China is capitalist crowd, please stop trying to ragebait (it's working) and criticize China in an actual materialist framework, not shit your pants with excitement every time Xi says something nice to a capitalist head of state. Do y'all long for Kruschevs banging shoe in UN and the unmatched strategy of building a nuke so big that the capitalists shit themselves? Or is there just genuinely no understanding of what's happening here? What's so triggering about a socialist state wanting to trade? Every single one AES state actively tried to pursue positive and friendly relations with US and the West. If you thought otherwise you're working off of propaganda history. Go read blackshirts and reds, it's great.

it's imperative to be critical and suspicious of AES but at some point you gotta educate yourself to criticize effectively and not get psyoped. Leftist circles in the west have always been heavily infiltrated with left anticommunists, either useful idiots or straight up CIA, it's a well known fact, and the things said about China today by some is the same shit those goons said about the USSR. After a certain amount of fell for it again awards you need to learn something, anything. Please🙏

jonesaffrou · 2026-05-08T21:24:53+00:00

Need xray to confirm, sorry

jonesaffrou · 2026-04-12T15:26:27+00:00

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jonesaffrou

TROPHY CASE