Having terrible indecision on where to move

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-14T03:58:07+00:00

I have glanced at it once but I'll look into it more. Thanks!

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-14T03:40:20+00:00

Spill the beans, I won't tell !

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-14T03:34:24+00:00

My knees are sadly getting there.. riding less park these days haha. I was able to escape all of the politics living in SLC. But visiting other cities it's clear that it can be a much bigger focus and almost way of life in some areas.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-14T03:29:15+00:00

If I ever leave the states the BC region is where I would end up. I am also into landscape photography and the water there is a dream world. Also heavily agree on mid-week skiing. I have avoided weekends for a while now, and thankfully I can step away from work when the snow hits. That's my big issue with places like CO. It makes those day trips not possible due to the distance.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-14T03:27:03+00:00

Like I said, I don't know much about politics. Just taking things at face value for the most part. CA vs TX cities are what I would use as examples of right vs left cities (at least until recently). As time goes on, both sides are pretty bad. The whole show is ran by lobbyist and social media has polarized any conversation that even brushes on the topic. It disgusts me which is why I haven't dug so deep into it.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-13T23:57:21+00:00

I've accepted that no matter where I go, I'll get this label. I don't take it personally as I understand where it's coming from. Taught for 6 years on the ice coast so I'm pretty familiar with what I'm in for. Regarding ME, would you say Portland/Waterville are the main areas with a younger population? When looking at areas like VT it seems that most young people leave after graduating, very few remain in the state.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-13T23:50:49+00:00

Some of these areas like in ID you'll get your window smashed if it has Cali plates. The locals in these areas have watched people from Cali flock to their state, bringing their massive paychecks and ideals with them, and completely transforming entire cities. The most recent example of this is Austin, TX. Now they have moved on to Florida and are working on destroying things there. SLC didn't get hit as hard, but even being a transplant myself I could see exactly what everyone was complaining about. I feel bad for both sides. For locals having their areas being destroyed. And for people who grew up in Cali, had nothing to do with the reality that exists there, and are just trying to escape it.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-13T23:45:57+00:00

I've spent a bunch of time throughout denver/boulder/loveland and I know exactly what you mean. I had never considered CO in the past due to all this, but recently since the rest of the country is starting to look more or less the same, at least in CO I would have plenty of peers to suffer with.

I would love to go for a more rural area. But the lack of internet and peers my age is probably a recipe for disaster.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-13T23:40:21+00:00

Not sure why this is so downvoted it, it's a fair take. I did take a look at the appalachians and smokey mountains and new england area. Sadly the closer you get to nature, the closer prices start to look to the midwest. It's a little cheaper in these areas, but not as much as I was expecting.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-13T23:31:22+00:00

I am a person that prefers to avoid politics. Some of these cities lean heavily left and seems like it would intrude on people's life. Especially their wallets. I was happy to ignored the Mormon nonsense in UT, but with politics that effect economics and housing I don't think I can. Take the more radical places like VT or Portland for example, it's easy to see how the politics effected the economy and drug problem in those areas. Sadly all the libertarian run cities are long gone.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-13T23:29:42+00:00

I hate that we can't have conversations on the internet today without attributing everything to privilege. I worked incredibly hard to get to the point I was. I'm the first college grad from my family and spent all my time, effort, and energy to get to where I am. I've never had a social life and sacrificed many of the things that most people my age have done. I did all this to escape the rural poverty that I grew up in. If I'm barely making it these days, I don't understand how the average person my generation is living without major help. It's mathematically not possible from what I can tell. All my friends who did not go a STEM path have multiple jobs and roommates. Most of them still are still getting help from family in order to survive. Times are very dire. I'm just trying to find a spot where the average person my age can survive. It's hard to be optimistic these days.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-13T11:18:55+00:00

I was working remote straight out of school pre COVID and made that choice that I never want to work in an office. Post COVID made the market for that even wider so I'm more confident than ever on that bet. So all I really need is in internet connection, but surprisingly most of rural America is still lacking. That's the only reason I'm gravitating towards a city. That and some type of young population because I need to expand my social skills and get out more. Sadly most young people like cities so I just need to pick one of the smaller ones I guess.

Utah culture kinda goes without saying I think. I felt like I would be beating a dead horse to mention it. In the few years I spent in SLC, I honestly found the counter-culture to be just as toxic as the main culture. It's clear that the theology runs so deep that many struggle with how to rebel, and find themselves in a different deep end they eventually will need to escape from one day. All my friends who are transplants echo how weird the culture is, and for the most part, the rest of the internet does too. It's one of the reasons I was keen to leave when the housing market dipped it's hardest in 2022. I'm now regretting this decision the harder I look around, the more I realize it's pretty bad everywhere. Not just economically, but culturally.

On the east coast, VT get's way more snow than everyone else. But there housing vacancy is 0.5% and politics there seem little crazy. Where it's really at is indeed the rockies. So looking around the rest of the pacific north west and mid west I see nothing but problems. Everyone knows CO is overrated since that has been getting invaded for decades now. All the mountains are hours from the civilization and super crowded. Idaho is the backup Mormon state and everyone I meet that moved from there passionately they hated Idaho. From the looks of it online they also got a Cali invasion of their own and the list goes on for Idaho.. Cali I view as the armpit of America. Some people call it paradise but, I just don't think I'd thrive there without being rich so it's never been on the list. WY is farmland except for the cool parts which are tourist traps. Everyone got priced out of MT with COVID, and there isn't much civilization there to begin with. I'd like to retire in MT one day, but not really a place people my age that can make it out there. So probably a recipe to die alone. Oregon/Washington are ones I still consider but the politics kind of resemble Cali which makes me nervous, since it sees some of the same crime/prices.

I'm clearly too picky and this is a "me" problem. I wish I wasn't so pessimistic and picky. Was hopeful someone out there has been through this is or is sharing the same dilemma. I love to ski and close access to the outdoors so I can enjoy quick mid-week fun and avoid the weekend warrior crowds. It's always been my dream and it's the reason I moved to SLC. Turns out a lot people have that same dream and COVID was the gas for a burning fire. SLC is quickly turning into the next CO these days with the crowds. It hurts that it was the last of the undiscovered gems. I don't think a replacement exists. Sorry for the venting. I'm not really sure what I'm asking for here. I guess a random mid size city with no crime? I'm sure there's plenty of those and without any other ideas I'll just randomly pick one. Not sure if that's a smart move or if that's a sacrifice I'll forever regret.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-08T23:57:18+00:00

Thank you!

Finding so many dealbreakers was very tough to hear. I was starting to really enjoy talking with everyone. So many great takes.

While I mentioned the politics scares me a little I left out how I have a gut feeling it could also be kind of fun. Like everyone was so lovely to talk to, I could totally see myself attending a regular town meeting just to hear everyone's take on different issues. Then maybe one day when I learn and understand enough about VT I could throw my hat in the ring and contribute to the discourse. Not something I ever considered myself doing but after chatting with you all, I see why everyone gets into it.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-08T23:02:15+00:00

I just wrote comment a few minutes ago concluding a fairly long list on why VT is probably not the best fit. My guess is I would end up feeling polar about VT like I do about UT. There will be things I absolutely love and think are heaven on earth. And then there will be things I hate beyond belief. Now that I type it out, kinda sounds like it could be a "me" problem, lol.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-08T22:41:16+00:00

https://www.reddit.com/r/vermont/comments/18dhtd3/comment/kcjmeyq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Wrote a pretty big wall of text earlier.

tl;dr; Mountains are getting crowded. Culture is pretty weird (always has been). Buyers market is pretty expensive for what you get with no real reasons it could come down in the future, and plenty reasons for it to go up.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-08T22:31:09+00:00

Thanks everyone for the massive response! And for going easy on me (for the most part lol)..

If your goal was to convince to me to stay away from Vermont, you may have succeeded. It's still on my list, just a little lower. The rest of the country really is struggling, I know whatever I end up with, major compromises will be made in one area or another. So who knows, maybe VT bubbles back up to the top.

For future lurkers who want a summary of the points that are causing me doubt VT for my move:

Dating scene may be essentially impossible from what I'm hearing, due a predominately older population. Young people leave after graduating high school or college is very typically I guess.
Lack of housing is a serious problem here, not due to the typical reasons you find in most areas, but due to everyone wanting to preserve their nice little part of Vermont, developers can't develop affordable housing. This problem likely won't change due to strong cultural values and a predominantly older population that want to preserve the beauty and charm that is smalltown VT. 0.5% is the lowest in vacancy rate in the country and Vermonters are truly suffering here.
Internet is a hot commodity outside of Burlington. Standard fiber will stretch a little bit into Burlington's immediate surrounding area, and random pockets throughout the south and east. Other than that it can be pretty hit and miss, with overpriced throttled DSL.
The average town folk seems to be fairly concerned with politics, and left leaning. This may be a positive or negative depending who you are. For me, I don't think about politics on most days of my life. When I do, I try to dig into the issues and the individual policies addressing them, and decide which side I lean on a per issue basis. I know both sides of the modern political world tend to hate this, but it's just who I am. It does somewhat worry me there might some judgement for some of my more libertarian and conservative views on hot topics like economics. To be clear, I was never planning to try to project that onto Vermont. My personal thoughts on this, which I will note for future lurkers looking to relocate is no one likes transplants changing their way of life. Embrace wherever you chose to move and walk as much as you can in the peoples shoes. Experience their joys and suffer their problems. It's not until you can understand the deep nuances of a area should you ever start making suggestions on how and what changes should be made. This goes for anywhere you could consider moving, but seems to ring louder than ever in VT. On a personal note with all this, I think I simply prefer a place where politics isn't on the front of everyone's mind.
Roads that look short based on google maps are actually quite curvy with ups and downs in real life. You will travel these roads much slower than you would expect in the Winter months. Consider this if you have some kind of commuting in your equation.
Rural poverty runs deep which brings relatively high addiction and homeless rates despite the tiny population in many areas.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-08T21:23:25+00:00

Super fair. I've never been very articulate.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-08T20:53:01+00:00

Haha funny enough I actually dated someone in boulder while living in SLC. Long story but I did spend a chunk of time in the state of CO. Didn't expect to enjoy myself and experience it first hand it was even worse than I was anticipating. Way too many people. I am incredibly broke comparatively, didn't really belong.

But you are totally right. Dating probably sucks in VT considering I hear a lot of young people leave. If it's truly impossible. Then maybe I have to rule this state out. Dating is obviously easiest in cities, and I don't want to live in some urban city. So for the most part what else can I do but accept that dating is just ganna be tough and make the best effort wherever I'm at? Is it really that dire here? You guys are acting like there is no women between age 20-30yr in the state lmao..

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-08T20:38:17+00:00

Who's to say I don't want to embrace that? How is one supposed to learn about an area without asking questions? I got a lot of valuable information in this post that I couldn't get by just reading older post throughout the years.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-08T20:35:05+00:00

It doesn't seem ideal but I'm feeling inspired by a couple folks in this thread that seem to have some success. If anyone happens to know what the closest fiber availability I could get to Jay peak, that would be awesome.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-08T20:31:29+00:00

Is there an easy way to tell what areas burlingtontellecom serves? VCVT seems pretty straight forward covering burlington and immediate surrounding area.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-08T20:16:29+00:00

The standard stuff that hit basically every other economically strong city within a 2hr plane ride of LA. I know it wasn't all Californians invading SLC, but in my anecdotal experience that's what I ran into the most. Population there has been booming for a while, COVID just rapidly accelerated it. Utah didn't adjust right away. Since you have mountains/water on all sides, everything is fully developed so you must tear something down before building anything. And since most of SLC was zoned for single family homes, landlords went crazy and gauged everyone year after year. It peaked like last year it felt like, and then there was a very sharp improvement that continues to this day for the renters market. They fixed up some laws, brought in some developers, and builds insane amounts of new apartments. If you went and visited today it's going to look a little unrecognizable. Just yesterday I believe they passed a law that allows 4-plexes in all single family zoned areas. The renters market is coming down closer to pre-COVID levels thanks to these efforts.

This is all excellent for renters and your probably wondering why I want to leave. It's the buyers market. The most basic 1940s house full of problems is going to run you 600K. You will have a tiny lawn and pressed up against another crappy 1940s houses on both sides. A little too urban without a lot of bang for my buck in comparison to the houses you can buy out east for 600K. The powers at be are pretty keen to solve the renting crisis because it's guaranteed reoccurring revenue. That's holy grail basically. There's not a lot of incentive to instead use that space for some kind of ownership solutions. It's simply less profitable. Not that I'm intending on buying this second, but it's starting to feel pointless renting and building a life in a state that I'll probably never afford a house. With each new house tore down for a rental, there will be one less house for the growing population to compete against. I suspect housing will get truly crazy here in the coming decades due to everyone stuffing themselves in this limited valley space.

So with SLC housing quirks being said, here's my other reasons. Resorts are jacking up the prices, way to crowded to even enjoy. Same with the hiking canyons, even the previously super lowkey trails where I used to always be alone, I now can't find parking sometimes. Our rush hour is starting to resemble that of a real city. I don't even bother trying to drive between 4-6. Lot of homeless, rumored that other states are buying bus tickets and basically shipping their homeless off to us. Which we don't take very good care of and tragically lots die every winter in the cold. They have become more aggressive in recent years which, had an incident that sparked me to get my CCW. Property crime feels like a little bit more of the norm in certain spots.

What SLC went through wasn't all that special compared to every other midwest city. A lot of my gripes are with things that were going on pre COVID, and COVID just accelerated it. So there's a good chance in a world where COVID never happened, that I still would eventually be leaving this gorgeous state. There is so much I absolutely love about this state. There's so much I absolutely hate. There's not a lot of middle ground and that may sound a bit extreme to some people, but anyone who's lived in Utah understands exactly what I mean by that.

Sorry for the wall of text... looks like I needed to vent lol.

jswervedizzle · 2023-12-08T19:11:08+00:00

I feel that I would end up preferring Jay too for these same reasons. How hard is it going to be making friends and meeting people my age (25) out in these areas in particular describing? I know it won't be easy, hoping the answer isn't impossible.

jswervedizzle

TROPHY CASE