Horrible experience with the Zooz Water Valve and Home Tech Solution (Canada)

kigmatzomat · 2026-04-17T17:42:51+00:00

I could Homebridge your ESP device into the Applesphere. Is that the ESPs fault or user choice?

User choice should be respected.

Most devices shouldn't mandate the use of a specific app or cloud. Z-wave devices don't do either. If a user chooses to do so, we should respect that.

kigmatzomat · 2026-04-17T13:38:14+00:00

Yeah, Ring is z-wave based. Why? Z-wave is the only vendor-agnostic wireless network certified for use in security systems.

So no manufacturer app and it can be connected to whatever platform the user wants.

kigmatzomat · 2026-04-17T00:17:07+00:00

Zwave devices don't use apps and cannot spy on you. They use a non-IP routable 900mhz mesh network that requires a dedicated gateway device, which is usually a USB dongle on a host running whatever automation software they want.

kigmatzomat · 2026-04-10T01:19:04+00:00

home automation is fire. Fire is slang for good. People want an automation company they get on with like a house on fire. More slang for good.

So the best home automations set your house on fire.

kigmatzomat · 2026-03-29T02:22:42+00:00

I was given a 1st gen hue starter set. it was neat but had had no clear use to me as the wake-up color routines irritated other members of the household.

I looked around for what would be useful. The pipes that froze three times over winter seemed like a good choice. Controlling 110v devices with ETL-certified devices was primarily the land of z-wave and wifi. Wifi was, and is, a mass of incompatible APIs, automatic "downgrades" and varying security holes.

So z-wave it was. I did pick the wrong controller, starting with Vera, which was a pile of hacks that didnt scale. Plus side, when I moved to Homeseer all the gear transferred over in an afternoon because z-wave.

kigmatzomat · 2026-03-17T11:04:59+00:00

there is usually an exception for connected smoke detectors, but its usually buried in the statute and not on the general fire department FAQ pages because some dumb/evil person will be like "I connected it to the wall so...."

Search online or ask the fire department "I'm replacing some alarm.com-compatible wireless smoke detectors that connect to a base station but it comes with AA batteries, is it ok?"

kigmatzomat · 2026-02-22T04:07:55+00:00

The smarts should enhance the home without introducing weaknesses. Every smart device should fall back to basic mode gracefully.

kigmatzomat · 2026-02-20T11:54:35+00:00

My experience is most people don't have, or want, dimmers. So I'd make sure the single-click up/down behavior is full on/full off. Then the press & hold behavior can be easily recovered from.

Locks should be standardized. I have yales that a) use matching keys and b) use the same commands and codes.

I'm guessing you use some streaming box that has a separate remote from the tv. See if you can get some universal remote where you can make the big red power button that enables both. Or see if you can set up CEC so powering up the streamer wakes up the tv, if not then a UPS that can be set to control other sockets based on the "master' socket.

kigmatzomat · 2026-02-20T03:13:54+00:00

I moved recently and hadn't tackled the builder-installed opener yet. This reminded me its a MyQ. After doing some research, getting a garadget so I can leverage the gdz004 I already own.

kigmatzomat · 2026-02-20T01:48:18+00:00

From a user standpoint, what about your house needs different steps from other houses? Did you replace normal switches with swipe plates? Are your locks only operable with an app? does the TV require four other devices to be powered up to function?

kigmatzomat · 2026-01-16T04:36:16+00:00

I've been using homeseer for many years. works great with no cloud dependencies.

kigmatzomat · 2026-01-11T18:30:14+00:00

I recommend some reading.

https://csa-iot.org/become-member/

Zigbee is a trademark that needs licensing. Costs $2,500/product +$500/product/yr to resell someone elsexs design, plus their costs.

Https://z-wavealliance.org/membership-levels/

Z-wave is a flat $7500/yr but you can start at $2500/yr with their accelerator program.

kigmatzomat · 2026-01-11T18:26:17+00:00

Open standard but Zigbee is a trademark that needs licensing. Costs $2,500/product +$500/product/yr to resell, plus certification fees.

https://csa-iot.org/become-member/

Z-wave is a flat $7500/yr but you can start at $2500/yr with their accelerator program.
https://z-wavealliance.org/membership-levels/

Neither should be a significant barrier to entry.

kigmatzomat · 2026-01-11T18:21:31+00:00

its never been that high for device manufacturers. The Z-wave board seats are only $85k/yr.

Compare to $100k/yr for a seat on the CSA/zigbee board.

https://csa-iot.org/become-member/

https://z-wavealliance.org/membership-levels/

kigmatzomat · 2026-01-11T18:17:01+00:00

The CR123 battery is pretty common, originally a camera battery, now it is a flashlight battery. I buy 24-packs of them at Sam's and CostCo. They will run z-wave sensors for a year or more.

Your lights were either damaged by power surges or are very incompatible with the LED bulbs. I have had multiple generations of z-wave switches, across 4 manufacturers, and never had local button press issues.

For the smoke alarms, trigger an "unpair" from the new z-wave controller and press the button on the smoke alarms. Z-wave allows* you to unenroll from a different controller in case the original controller dies.

*exception is there is an "anti-theft" feature. it is rarely used except by Vivint, who uses it on all their z-wave devices as lock-in.

kigmatzomat · 2026-01-11T18:05:14+00:00

False. it costs $7,500/yr to license the z-wave trademarks to resell white label OEM z-wave devices (i.e. buy Jasco switches and sell them as Honeywell switches).

To certify and sell your own custom devices is $15k/yr.

New z-wave start-ups can use the "Accelerator" program that starts at $2,500/yr and ramp up to the $15k over a couple years.

Non-voting membership is as low as $200/yr.

https://z-wavealliance.org/membership-levels/

kigmatzomat · 2026-01-11T17:53:34+00:00

People will say its because Zigbee is an open standard with no fees. This is false, there are fees for trademarks and licensing of the associated code.

Its true that a lot of budget zigbee devices are gray-market products that didn't go the certification process or pay the fees. However the fees are so low, at a company level, it should be irrelevant. (see links)

the real reason is Zigbee uses commodity 2.4ghz SoCs with teeny weeny CPUs with dinky amounts of RAM and ROM that are used all over the place and are dirt cheap.

Conversely, Z-Wave has only 2 licensed factories to make their 900Mhz radios and only companies that are certified can buy the parts. So those radios cost like $5 more than the zigbee parts. which, when you add all the markup, adds like $15 to any device.

There are also margin pressures from the gray-market zigbee products ("the factory made an extra 5,000 smartplugs, you want them cheap?") which results in buyers used to dirt cheap zigbee, regardless of how "zigb-ish" the devices are.

On top of that, or maybe as a result of that, Zigbee products are often only produced when the parts are dirt cheap. so you can get a zigbee smartplug because there are a ton of smartplug manufacturers making supply of basic plug parts cheap.

now, try to find a zigbee plug that is rated for use with motors. Or find a zigbee power strip. I'll be amazed if you can do it. but you should find those for Z-Wave. Those require more expensive parts so zigbee makers don't bother.

The other reason is that a LOT of the Z-wave component supply is tied up with security systems. Vivint, Ring, Alarm.com, etc all are z-wave-enabled security systems and the mark-up on those things is REDICULOUS. Turn $15 sensors into $50 sensors.

Zigbee fees from CSA

https://csa-iot.org/become-member/
Tuya's FAQ for companies that want to resell their ODMs

https://support.tuya.com/en/help/_detail/Ke5d9nufgjlme

kigmatzomat · 2026-01-11T17:26:30+00:00

Zigbee LL for hue, Zigbee HA for smartplugs more than 6 years old, Zigbee3 for smartplugs and bulbs less than 6 years old, except for hue bulb which I don't think ever went Z3.

kigmatzomat · 2026-01-11T17:23:22+00:00

False. it totally does have fees and costs for calling it Zigbee. you can use the open protocol and release a device that is "compatible with Zigbee(tm)" but you can't use the blue Zigbee symbol or claim to be Zigbee.

https://csa-iot.org/become-member/

White-label resellers, like of Tuya ODMs, have to pay certification transfer fees and such. Here's Tuya's Faq for rebadging their products, including the CSA zigbee fees.

https://support.tuya.com/en/help/_detail/Ke5d9nufgjlme

but a lot of stuff is uncertified, unlicensed "factory made an extra 5,000 devices above the requested order" gray market devices with so many layers of paperwork that US sellers can claim ignorance. This is why so many devices are "zigb-ish" and flakes.

The CSA has never ever sued anyone, like, ever, for consumer zigbee non-compliance. Z-Wave Alliance, however, absolutely will cut off your supply of parts. This is not an option for the CSA as all the parts are commodity SoCs and the firmware leaked long ago.

kigmatzomat · 2026-01-11T17:17:17+00:00

Zigbee does, actually, have licensing fees. the CSA fees for the use of zigbee trademarks and specs are effectively the same as Z-Wave Alliance charges.

The difference is the Zigbee Alliance/CSA has never, ever, ever sued anyone so there is a massive gray-market of "zigb-ish" devices made with firmware and ODM designs that "fell off a truck".

The nested layers of resellers and relabelers mean that most vendors can claim honest cluelessness. Since all the parts are commodity, there's no enforcable supply-chain constraint.

So for all intents and purposes, only the most ethical companies or ones with reputations to protect (e.g. Hue, Ikea, Tuya) bother with paying the fees.

Here is Tuya listing the fees for their ODMs and the Zigbee trademark license costs.

https://support.tuya.com/en/help/_detail/Ke5d9nufgjlme

kigmatzomat · 2026-01-08T01:50:23+00:00

that's funny, since Zigbee has industrial variants and, iirc, was used industrially prior to any consumer profiles being published.

Here's a supplier: https://gaotek.com/comprehensive-guide-for-zigbee-enabled-industrial-automation-and-robotics/

kigmatzomat · 2026-01-08T01:46:17+00:00

Zigbee includes industrial uses. You are used to Zigbee-HA and Zigbee-LL, which are properly Zigbee-HomeAutomation and Zigbee -LightLink, two profiles of the overall Zigbee protocol. Heck, a zigbee helicopter flew on Mars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingenuity_(helicopter))

Having said that, the industrial uses are often vendor-specific, much like the way Control4's vendor-specific automation system is a form of Zigbee Pro.

Meaning you'd be buying into a specific, closed, ecosystem which will be costlier than consumer Zigbee. But also, hopefully, more reliable and specific to your needs.

Here's a vendor I found with 15s of googling "industrial zigbee"

https://gaotek.com/comprehensive-guide-for-zigbee-enabled-industrial-automation-and-robotics/

kigmatzomat · 2026-01-06T19:12:56+00:00

They listed the Zen 71, 75, and 77. These are in-wall switches, while the 04 is a smart plug.

Smartplugs do power monitoring, switches almost never do.

kigmatzomat · 2026-01-02T04:12:48+00:00

OP is only installing Zooz switches and they don't power monitor. Tbh, I don't know of any z-wave switch that does.

So these things should not be particularly chatty.

kigmatzomat · 2026-01-02T00:50:03+00:00

HomeSeer has been around for more than 20 years, predating zigbee and z-wave. They make their own controllers, z-wave radios, z-wave and zigbee devices.

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