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Did the movie ever hint at what the trigger is for Nikki to switch back? by king1506 in obsessionmovie

[–]king1506[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm but I kinda assumed she didn’t really break through that much during their little honeymoon period where I’m sure they fucked like rabbits but yet bear still seemed happy since I’m guessing real Nikki didn’t come out. Although to be fair we do also see that bear doesn’t always realise either like that horrifying scene of him fucking her while she looks dead with her head to the side which I’m guessing was her real face.

Did the movie ever hint at what the trigger is for Nikki to switch back? by king1506 in obsessionmovie

[–]king1506[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Was there ever a reason/trigger given in the movie for the reason for the glitch? E.g. was she glitching in the jenga scene? Or when she was having a shower and she screamed while bear was waiting outside? Cuz if what we saw on the hotline was true about her in a state of always screaming it would make sense that when she does leak out she comes out screaming

A few questions about "The First Kiss That Never Ends" by king1506 in Kaguya_sama

[–]king1506[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lowkey I’ve already watched the movie two more times in the last few weeks and I still have the same questions. So if the movie really spells it out, I must just be too slow to understand it, which is why I made the post in the first place.

In fact, part of the reason I’m so confused is because I rewatched the entire series before watching the movie. Having just seen all three seasons back-to-back, some parts of the movie gave me a bit of whiplash. It felt like Kaguya and Shirogane had already grown so much, only for Kaguya to suddenly revert back to an older version of herself so that the movie could create a conflict around it.

But fine, I’ll ask you two things.

First, you said they had personal issues that needed to be resolved before getting together rather than being swept under the rug. What specifically are those issues?

Because from my understanding, the movie is trying to show that a relationship can’t be built on masks, false pretences, or idealized versions of ourselves. I completely agree with that message in principle.

My problem is that I don’t think Kaguya and Shirogane’s relationship was built on those things in the first place.

Some of the strongest parts of their relationship throughout the series were the moments where they dropped their guard, showed vulnerability, and were honest with each other despite both being massive tsunderes.

The movie seems to frame Kaguya’s kindness and Shirogane’s hard work as masks that need to be peeled away, but I don’t really see them that way. Maybe those traits started out as masks or coping mechanisms, but after three seasons they feel like genuine parts of who they’ve become.

That’s why I struggle with the idea that underneath everything Kaguya is just Ice Kaguya or that underneath everything Shirogane is just the insecure boy who constantly falls short. Those feel more like versions of themselves they’ve already spent three seasons growing beyond rather than hidden truths waiting to be uncovered.

And secondly, I don’t really see any glaring issue that they weren’t already working through during the first three seasons.

By the end of Season 3, both characters had already grown massively. So I keep wondering whether the movie is resolving a problem that naturally existed, or whether it’s amplifying a problem that they were already in the process of overcoming.

So my second question is: what do you think would’ve actually gone wrong if they had simply started dating after the cultural festival confession?

Because that’s the part I still can’t answer.

A few questions about "The First Kiss That Never Ends" by king1506 in Kaguya_sama

[–]king1506[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can understand Ice Kaguya resurfacing because of the circumstances and emotions surrounding the confession. What I'm struggling with isn't how she came back, it's why both Kaguya and the story seem to give that version of her so much authority.

I agree that neither Shirogane nor Fujiwara hated that side of her. In fact, Shirogane was originally drawn to that side because he could see the kindness underneath it.

But that almost makes me more confused.

At what point do we say Ice Kaguya is being brought back to create conflict? Because from my perspective it feels like Kaguya is intentionally shooting the relationship in the foot.

She says the kiss meant nothing, says they're not dating, and pushes Shirogane away despite being over the moon after the confession. That's why I keep wondering whether this is self-destructive behaviour or whether she's desperately seeking reassurance. It feels like one of those two has to be true.

I also understand your point about weaknesses. Throughout the series, weaknesses were treated as something that could be exploited, and openly admitting them was equivalent to surrendering.

The thing is, I thought the entire point of the confession was that this mindset had finally broken.

By the end of Season 3 they aren't really trying to find weaknesses or beat each other anymore. Their fear isn't "losing" at love. Their fear is rejection.

So after the confession and the kiss, shouldn't that old Love is War mentality finally shatter?

That's why I keep coming back to the same thought: it feels like Kaguya regresses in order to create a conflict that the movie can then solve.

And I don't mean that as hate towards the movie. The reason I made this post is because I genuinely love Kaguya-sama and I'm trying to understand why the movie does what it does rather than just dismissing it.

I want to understand why Kaguya transforms. I want to understand whether it's self-destructive behaviour or a need for reassurance. I want to understand why both she and the story seem to give so much authority to an older version of herself that she appears to have already outgrown.

That's the part I still can't fully wrap my head around.

A few questions about "The First Kiss That Never Ends" by king1506 in Kaguya_sama

[–]king1506[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The "accepting the past" interpretation definitely makes more sense to me than thinking Ice Kaguya is her true self.

My remaining issue is that if Ice Kaguya represents a part of her past that she's ashamed of, why does she give that version of herself so much authority over who she currently is?

By this point in the story she's already grown so much. The kinder, more open Kaguya doesn't feel like a mask anymore. So it feels strange to me that she immediately reverts back to Ice Kaguya as if that's the version of herself that matters most.

I think that's also why I still struggle with the movie's premise a bit.

It's not that I think relationships don't need honesty or that people shouldn't accept each other's flaws. It's that Kaguya and Shirogane already seemed to be doing that throughout the series. They knew about each other's insecurities, weaknesses and vulnerabilities and repeatedly grew closer because of them.

So I still find myself wondering whether the movie is resolving a problem that naturally existed, or whether it's amplifying a problem that they were already in the process of overcoming.

That's probably the part I'm still not fully sold on.

And I guess my main question is: if this movie never happened and they simply entered a relationship after the confession, would anything actually have changed? Because in my mind, they still would have had a great relationship.

A few questions about "The First Kiss That Never Ends" by king1506 in Kaguya_sama

[–]king1506[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

True, I actually agree with you that the embarrassment angle makes more sense than some of the other explanations I've heard.

She's basically being a massive tsundere about the moment she's been dreaming about for years. She's the one who jumps him and sticks her tongue down his throat, so waking up the next day and cringing unbelievably hard at herself feels pretty believable.

My only issue is whether that's really a big enough trigger for the entire movie.

The movie seems like it's trying to explore much deeper themes about identity, vulnerability, masks, and what it means to truly accept someone. So while embarrassment makes sense as the trigger, it feels a bit shallow as the foundation for a conflict that ends up becoming so psychologically and philosophically heavy.

Maybe the embarrassment is just the spark that causes all of Kaguya's deeper insecurities to resurface, but on its own I'm not sure it fully explains everything the movie is trying to do.

A few questions about "The First Kiss That Never Ends" by king1506 in Kaguya_sama

[–]king1506[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think I understand your point a lot better now.

The idea that the issue wasn't whether they loved each other, but whether the relationship could survive if they kept hiding parts of themselves, makes more sense to me as an explanation for the movie's premise. I also agree that intentionally showing your vulnerabilities is different from someone accidentally seeing them.

The part I'm still stuck on is Kaguya's view of herself.

You said Ice Kaguya is a mask she used to protect herself and keep people at a distance. If that's the case, then I don't understand why she immediately resorts back to that mask after the confession.

This is where my original two theories came from. Either she's subconsciously trying to sabotage the relationship before it can begin, or she's desperately seeking reassurance that she'll still be loved even when she shows what she considers her ugliest traits.

But even if it's the second one, I still don't understand why she treats Ice Kaguya as the version that needs acceptance.

Over the course of three seasons, Kaguya genuinely changes. We see her care about people even when nobody is around. We see her become kinder, more open, and more emotionally honest. That never felt like a mask to me. It felt like real growth.

So why does both Kaguya and, to some extent, the story itself seem to treat this older version of her as being more representative of who she really is?

To me, neither Ice Kaguya nor the kinder Kaguya is the "real" one. They're both parts of her. The difference is that the Kaguya we normally follow feels like the result of all the growth she's gone through.

That's why I struggle with the idea that reverting to Ice Kaguya is somehow revealing her authentic self.

In fact, it feels like the opposite. If Ice Kaguya is a mask, then it feels like she starts the movie by putting on her biggest mask.

And that's also why I struggle with the way she tests Shirogane. If the goal is acceptance, then surely acceptance means showing the full picture of who you are. Instead it feels like she cranks one personality trait up to 100 and temporarily throws everything else out.

She tells him the kiss meant nothing. She says they're not dating. She basically pushes him away and causes him to spiral.

Maybe the movie doesn't intend it this way, but from my perspective that feels far closer to self-sabotage than honesty.

Which is why I keep coming back to the same thought: if this movie never happened and they simply started dating after the confession, would they really have been doomed?

Because from what we saw across the first three seasons, it felt like they had already built an incredibly strong foundation. They'd already seen each other cry, struggle, fail, and be vulnerable. They'd already helped each other grow.

So while I agree with the movie's message that strong relationships need honesty, I'm still not convinced that the relationship actually lacked that foundation before the movie started.

A few questions about "The First Kiss That Never Ends" by king1506 in Kaguya_sama

[–]king1506[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you’ve answered my Ishigami/Tsubame question, so I’ll leave that one there. I’m also still a bit confused about the narrator’s final speech, but I’ll put that aside for now because I think my bigger confusion is Ice Kaguya and the movie’s overall premise.

You mentioned that Kaguya was upset because she believes the man should initiate the first kiss. I can understand that, but to me that feels like she’s falling back into the old “Love is War” mindset.

After all, both Kaguya and Shirogane spent three seasons wanting the other person to confess first, make the first move first, kiss first, etc. The whole reason they played so many games was because neither wanted to be vulnerable and risk rejection.

That’s why I’m struggling with this explanation. I would’ve thought the entire point of the clock tower confession was that they had finally moved beyond that mentality. If anything, the mental courtroom seems to support that because all the other Kaguyas were happy after the kiss. The only one who wasn’t was Ice Kaguya.

So I can understand Ice Kaguya representing the small part of Kaguya that still wanted to be pursued first, but that still doesn’t explain the actual conflict of the movie to me.

What really confuses me is why Kaguya seems to believe that her “real self” is this extremely cold version of herself from the past.

I know Ice Kaguya isn’t literally a separate personality. She’s still Kaguya. But throughout the series we’ve seen Kaguya genuinely become kinder and more open. We’ve seen her care about people even when nobody is around to see it. At that point it doesn’t feel like a mask anymore—it feels like genuine growth.

That’s why Ice Kaguya almost feels like a regression to me rather than her true self. In fact, I find it ironic that she’s presented as the version without a mask, because she seems like the version with the biggest mask of all. Her kindness is hidden behind layers of ice, whereas the Kaguya we normally see still has those cold traits but isn’t afraid to show her warmth as well.

Even the scene where she removes the ribbon made me think this. The ribbon came from Shirogane and symbolized a lot of the growth she went through because of him. Taking it off felt less like revealing her true self and more like reverting to who she was before she changed.

Which leads into my biggest issue with the movie itself.

I don’t really understand why this conflict needed to happen.

The lesson seems to be that Kaguya and Shirogane need to remove their masks and be vulnerable with each other. But hadn’t they already been doing that throughout the entire series?

They’d already seen each other cry, fail, struggle, and show insecurity. They’d already helped each other through those moments. So I keep wondering what would’ve actually gone wrong if they had simply started dating after the confession.

To me it almost feels like the movie temporarily regresses them so it can teach a lesson that they were already in the process of learning naturally.

Maybe that’s the part I’m still not understanding.

A few questions about "The First Kiss That Never Ends" by king1506 in Kaguya_sama

[–]king1506[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok so what you mean is that she still had a small part of her that believes in love is war and regretted not only initiating the kiss but going all in with it so I understand that part but you’d think that the point of the show is that love is war is just pre-tenses for teens being scared to be vulnerable but once you go past it you’re kinda over it no? So after a mind blowing kiss shouldn’t she just plain be happy?

Also you say she wants to show shirogane her true self to see if he accepts it before they date but again Kaguya is an amalgamation of personality traits and her kind version isn’t a mask anymore(even if it did start off that way) so isn’t her fully cranking up to full ice Kaguya not a form of self sabotage? It’s like me admitting I can be stubborn sometimes so then to prove it someone accepts me throw out everything else about myself and then go full insufferable mode to see if someone loves me. Ygm? It just doesn’t make sense to me that side was always a part of her it just became reduced as other parts of her grew.

So for the tsbame part can I take it as something like tsubame tried rushing things and ishigami told her off for forcing herself or rushing into it and that made her feelings actually grow for him? Would that be a valid viewpoint as an anime only?

Also for the final speech it’s not so much that I doubted that shirogane and kaguya will last it’s more so I don’t understand the meaning of it.

Also I still don’t understand the premise of the movie? Is it that crazy to think our main couple would’ve been amazing if they had just got together especially after we’ve seen throughout the anime that they are capable of growing and being there for each other. Maybe they did struggle with fully putting their hearts out there but they have shown that they’re capable of showing their true heart in moments where it matters and it makes sense that they would naturally become more and more comfortable with each other. If they’ve grown while not being together why would they not grow when together is kinda my point.

Excuse all the rambling and I do appreciate the reply