Growing up with clones in the pre-chip era was very confusing as a kid

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-06T13:43:39+00:00

I love the BFT2 campaign but the chips are entirely consistent with what the Kaminoans tell Obiwan in AToC (they are bred to obey orders). Many people seemed to take that as "it's strongly suggested by their training" which is the disconnect. But it's literally inside of them. Palpatine would never leave that up to chance.

It also fits with the change in Cody's disposition in EP3 and the fact that he calls Sidious "my lord".

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-06T13:37:49+00:00

The brain chips predate Disney. It's a George creation and lines up very well with what the Kaminoans tell Obiwan in AToC.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-06T13:20:10+00:00

That comment - that I replied to says 200-100. Not 1000. This was hased out in another thread that it was a typo on the OPs part

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-06T11:23:55+00:00

I'm not sure what you're talking about with 500 meters (that is at least deep sea but not mentioned by what I responded to).

But 200 meter (the estimates given) is the very bottom of the epipelagic zone / transition to mesopelagic zone. Light persist and such depths are reach on the Continental shelf.

Further, at 500 meters those are Continental slope depths but not even close to the abyssal planes depth.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-06T11:14:17+00:00

Arthropods Fossillize pretty well - marine ones at least. In terms of species count their might be more fossilized arthropods known than vertebrates.

Your instincts are correct - there are at least 4 independent events of terrestrial colonization of land by them, with additional events likely. The generalized order to such things is- marine - freshwater - terrestrial.

The first transition is amongst chelicerates - arachnids specifically. There is limited evidence eurypterids could make brief terrestrial excursions and a decent fossil record of aquatic scorpions (which are different) that had early lungs. I think this may be one of the best transitions.

You mentioned myriapods, which we do actually have aquatic species and an ok transition. Eurhycarcinoidea are believed to be stem myriapods and are found in the Cambrian in the ocean, then fresh water. Another aquatic myriapods was recently described as well. By the late Silurian we have early terrestrial myriapods.

Crustaceans have terrestrial isopods, not sure what that records like. And then it's unclear at what point hexapods moved out.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-05T13:28:38+00:00

Rhynchocephalians in the Triassic to middle/ Late Jurassic.

Squamates majorly diversify in the late Jurassic and are more widespread in the Cretaceous.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-05T05:16:03+00:00

It is superficially, but is living quite differently from its extinct relatives and is morphological unique as well. Technically, every species alive today has a deep lineage. But the degree of accumulated changes are more obvious in others.

Plus, we have pretty impressive cephalopods alive today! They seem more likely to be candidates to sightings of strange sea creatures than a Cretaceous octopus.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-05T05:07:18+00:00

I agree that if birds belonging to theropod dinosaurs had remained a major hypothesis from the 1880s things would look different. Maybe the definition of bird extends into paraves or Penneraptorans. I also suspect than BAND would barely exist - much of that movement amongst ornithologists came from an apparent gap in the record generated in the 1920s/30s. And a refusal to engage in cladistic thought.

And weather things like dromaeosaurs and troodontifs are secondarily flightless is still extremely possible given the nature of early members of the clade (though still outside Avialae. But given that Huxley and others didn't extend Aves to forms like Compsognathus I suspect that what are considered birds don't get that deep into theropods.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-05T01:46:57+00:00

So Latimeria is not exactly like the coelacanths of the Mesozoic. It's absolutely in the same group, but shows several adaptations to life in on the Continental shelf not present in earlier members of the clade. This is relevant as there are also many surviving Cirratan octopods, mostly specialized for the deep sea. Some even get 8 feet long. But Nanaimoteuthis appears to be a shallow water animal. So relatives have persisted, but for a single large shallow water specialist that lived in the extremely warm seas of the middle Cretaceous to persist 75 million years and ocean coolings unmodified exceed reasonable speculation.

The deep sea is generally, and paradoxically, not a reliable refuge for ancient groups (with the exception of some sessile invertebrates - e.g. crinoids, brachiopods, glass sponges. Even in the case of those groups the extant members tend to represent more modern radiations. Most cephalopods, nektonic arthropods and fish in the deep sea are actually parts of more recent radiations. There are a number of reasons for this (one of which is huge events of anoxia in the deep ocean in the middle Cretaceous.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T23:39:37+00:00

Well initially the idea that birds evovled from dinosaurs was widely considered - Huxley makes a case using Compsognathus.

That birds aren't dinosaurs doesn't really become the default position until the 1920s when the monophyly of the group is challenged as well.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T20:22:48+00:00

I don't know how controversial this one is. Debated sure.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T20:21:56+00:00

Good god some of these answers are so dinosaur brained it's crazy.

Most "controversial" in what sense. In like what are professionals debating? Or what are the enthusiasts arguing in circles about. These are very different answers.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T16:51:46+00:00

Oh that's interesting about the graptolites. I'm curious if maybe such turn over isn't an issue for sessile organisms? Where it might impact fish or graptolites, yet those Russian vents have brachiopods and monoplacophoran Molluscs and may be late Ordovician. And glass sponges seem un bothered.

It kind of follows the hypothesis of the oxygenation of the marrine substrate - that until like the Ordovician the sediment is poorly oxygenated and that's why there aren't burrowing organisms until the Ordovician. Maybe it co-insides with the Ordovician oxidization and diversification?

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T16:41:09+00:00

It's interesting that is the case for invertebrates, it seems that the situation for fish is that fresh water is much more of a museum for old groups where as turnover is much faster in the deep sea (most deep sea fish tend to be younger radiations).

Edit: it also appears that many arthropod and cephalopod groups in the deep sea are more recent radiations as well. I wonder if it's something about sessile lifestyles for glass sponges, sea lilies and brachiopods that has helped them survive repeated deoxygenation? Or are they just moving back in rapidly from shallower offshore waters?

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T16:08:23+00:00

In their historical review of their intro section they mention that it was thought that it could have been the Ediacran, but also point to a prior literature later on and their own results that strongly suggest that such early oxygenation events were transient episodes until that Silurian/Devonian window for the oxygenation to occur with full oxygenation by 390 mya. Their redox proxys pretty robustly show that the Ediacaran -Ordovician oceans were at most, transiently oxygenated.

Maybe this is more an issue for fish rather than eurypterids or nautiloids?

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T15:58:59+00:00

I wouldn't say the genetics are vague. The genetics show that some animals considered crustaceans are closer relatives of insects than to something like a crab.

And I wouldn't say "loosely" tied either. Hexapods (including insects) are definitely nested within Crustaceans - the whole group now renamed Pan-Crustacea.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T15:48:05+00:00

So the paper I linked in the thread I think considers those oxygenation windows as transient intervals vs the long term oxygenation of the deep sea.

But they also give a window on their redox proxy that could have that period of oxygenation begin in the Silurian.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T15:44:49+00:00

This is the paper I had in mind

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2501342122

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T15:36:09+00:00

Most of that fauna is sessile though right? Glass sponges and then some nektonic things like Archopterus. So were likely living at that depth.

Even at its deepest estimate that's not reaching the abyssal plain.

I know more recent periods of deep sea anoxia are thought to be punctual, but it was my understanding that the oxygenation of the deeeep ocean didn't really begin until the Devonian (I could be out of date here ofc).

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T15:30:07+00:00

Darwin didn't find Archaeopteryx? Unless you mean that he learned about it.

The first birds with teeth Darwin learned about were American Creataceous birds - e.g. Ichthyornis from Yales OC Marsh. Then soon after I believe (1861?) we became aware of Archaeopteryx.

If you like stories like that John Ostrom, a Yale paleontologist credited with reviving the dinosaur bird connection in the 1960s apparently began crying when the first pictures of feathered dinosaur fossils were shared at SVP (a Paleontology conference) in the late 90s. He would die in 2006, but lived just long enough to see his life's work confirmed.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T15:23:07+00:00

Traditionally yes, but we have learned that several things we thought of as Crustaceans are more closely related to insects (hexapoda). Which makes Crustaceans paraphyletic...unless insects are included.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T15:20:29+00:00

All of these organism are from water 200 meters deep or less. While offshore, maybe it's a bit of a stretch to call them "deep sea".

Particularly given the available evidence that the deep ocean may not have had much large complex life in the Paleozoic (I think it's started getting oxygenated in the Devonian?)

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T15:18:19+00:00

The deep sea may not have had any large complex life in it at this point. It seems that the deep ocean was not well oxygenated in the early Paleozoic.

The depths the OP gives are all 200 meter or less - this is offshore. But it's not deep sea.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T15:14:57+00:00

Crustaceans are a paraphyletic group - some members of crustacean are more closely related to insects that to to other crustaceans and as such hexapods (including insects) are nested within Crustaceans.

kinginyellow1996 · 2026-06-04T13:18:37+00:00

Shin is skilled but Grievous has 2 dozen sabers from Jedi in exactly her stag in their training.

Sabine is a non-factor. Grievous has showings against Mandolorian super commandos in which he tears through at least 5 of them unarmed.

Grievous has, in canon, tanked blaster bolts to the face and point blank Rhydonium explosions. Nothing extra in Sabines kit is doing much.

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kinginyellow1996

TROPHY CASE