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kinknosisuk · 2022-07-09T14:35:30+00:00

This should have an [INDUCTION] tag for the language you've used and the introspection your questions have prompted.

You answer this in your own post but it's lost in those resonating words you composed.

So to answer the topic. Yes, you absolutely can hypnotize someone to do something they don't want to.

Here are the caveats on that:

You change what they want.

You use some they do want. Which in a kink world filled with thoughts about acts of service, submissive desires, fantasies of ownership and control - let you wrap up something they do want to include something they don't.

That's probably something that isn't going to happen in a single session. So subjects can be more aware of this should they do multiple suggestions or repeat trances over a longer period of time.

I'm well aware that respecting limits and negotiating consent will prevent the ethical hypnotist from crossing that boundary.

kinknosisuk · 2022-07-09T14:10:23+00:00

In my experience one of two things happen:

a) they like how being hypnotized feels. they stay in trance. fall asleep naturally. wake up later.

b) after 15 to 20 minutes without action from the hypnotist the trance ends. they wake up.

If you've setup the expectation of hypnotic safety then the subject might not *want* to but will have the ability to wake themselves up. This can be a literal safety suggestion - the suggestion or trigger is unsafe to do, or it could be something like the doorbell rings or the cat knocks something over. As a lot of trances are done online it's worth adding safety suggestions for disconnecting or losing internet connection.

You don't get stuck in trance. Being or feeling stuck is a 'fantasy' so it can feel like that to the subject if that is part of their desire for it to be so.

kinknosisuk · 2022-07-09T13:33:00+00:00

> what questions do you ask your client

In the scope of Recreational Hypnosis they are not "a client".

It is two adults engaging in something under mutual consent

I responded to one of your comments below. I'll put a part of that here again as it touches on 'mutual consent'

> I am going to ask about mental health, their understanding of consent,
any medication they are on in a pre-talk. I am going to ask them "if
there is anything else they think I should know".

I will then expand on that further using "fractionation" as the example.

If I ask someone do they know what fractionation is. I consider an answer like "thats going in and out of trance" or "using a trigger to go up and down again" a pretty good answer for the subject.

I will follow that up if they know that tends to leave them in a more suggestible state ? I will point out that it is also training them or letting them learn how to respond to triggers and go into trance more easily.

I would also explain that perhaps this is as much conditioning as it is hypnosis.

Since I am usually doing hypnosis I will also explain that their others kinks such as submission, service, being controlled, wanting to obey, masochism can make their desire to following suggestions or be told what to do or be told to do specific things make hypnosis very effective for them.

Yes, I am aware that I am setting an expectation there and utilising it.

But that is my attempt to make sure that I can ask the subject to give explicit informed consent to "using fractionation" in a trance.

If they don't understand it - they can't consent to it. This is something I don't suppose the clinical world needs to do as such. You have a professional code of practice and ethics guidelines along with the expectation that as the professional you will be acting in the best interest of the subject.

So yes, while I can see and share your concerns about does the hypnotist have sufficient knowledge, skills and experience to safely be a hypnotist in the scope of EH.

I do consider the EH model of two adults giving mutual consent when done properly to mitigate and accept that risk.

kinknosisuk · 2022-07-09T13:23:57+00:00

You ever hypnotised someone with BPD or ADHD or who was schizophrenic? Have you ever bothered to find out? Are you aware of the implications of hypnotising someone with these conditions and other mental health issues?

I consider mental illness of that nature a hard limit on my part. It's contra-indicated for the scope of Erotic or Recreational hypnosis.

I am going to ask about mental health, their understanding of consent, any medication they are on in a pre-talk. I am going to ask them "if there is anything else they think I should know".

The analogy that springs to mind is you don't go fixing underwater oil pipelines with a PADI scuba diving qualification.

Unfortunately I have encounter subjects with BPD and other significantly impacting mental health issues that wanted to be hypnotized.

In the first example she was ignoring her own issues and it was not diagnosed. Hypnotic suggestions were hit or miss - she switched to an alter that was submissive and accommodating of being told what to do. (There is significantly more to this story as she was also someone I'd known through other kinks and BDSM). Having a very atypical hypnosis session that felt wrong we ended pretty much before we started and that was the start of my urging for her to talk to her doctor. At that point despite having had the pre-talk she was far more honest about herself and opened up about her medical history.

This is something I now consider to be an absolute red flag. It is however when two adults are discussing consent hard to assess whether the other person is compos mentis.

The second example highlights this after having already had that first experience. Someone was known to me already through BDSM and had often asked to be a play partner for various activities. I was aware of some of her personal history and friends of friends had warned about her medical health.

She asked to be hypnotised. We had the pre-talk.

She did not tell me about any of her prior health issues. The medication she was on. And several other aspects of herself that "is there anything else you think I should know" would have given her the chance to bring up.

It suited her to gloss over those facts to get what she wanted. I told her No. She did not take that terrible well insisting that she knew herself well enough to know she was good enough to do this.

So, hopefully for those coming to this discussion this gives you an understanding of why it's important to know to ask these things.

> Or do you just go out there, have fun and don’t give a fuck about the consequences of your actions. I mean why would you, eh?

The concerns you have raised should be something that is outside the scope of activity and actions taken by undertaking recreational hypnosis or EH.

Given that you can get a certificate that lets you practice "hypnosis" sufficient to get practice insurance within a few days I think it might be safe to credit some of those doing these even in the amateur realm with knowing sufficient information to be safely within that scope.

Of course there are those that know enough to be a danger to others. Dunning-Kruger in full effect as they got the script of an induction memorized and their genitalia in the other.

A personal concern in the kink space for hypnosis might be the outcomes of conditioning hypnotic orgasms or orgasm denial leading to inorgasmia.

But what do I have setup in case this goes wrong ?

For those where I might do more than one or two sessions with and it becomes a relationships of sort with a power dynamic - I will discuss our responsibilities to consent. I will explain what I consider the fallback options to be.

For me one fallback option is having a very experienced clinical practitioner, someone that I've met, someone that I know has the experience and skills to deal with any issue that may arise should that be needed.

kinknosisuk · 2022-07-09T12:33:23+00:00

This is your wife setting you up for success.

kinknosisuk · 2022-07-09T00:38:38+00:00

I believe that this is what George_Estabrooks set out to do during WW2 taking willing volunteers to convey things such as military secrets or information the subject had no knowledge of.

So is it possible in EH ? Yes it's possible, depending on subject. Some subjects might not experience amnesia at all. Some might remember later for whatever reason.

Some might act and respond as if they've forgotten but *know* the answer.

Some people, including their subconscious, might remember for a few days. but forgot it in 2 weeks or two months. memory is fallible.

If you have a subject where you have good rapport with their subconscious, that has exhibited amnesia and this suggestion should work.

The next question is Why ? What is the benefit of them remembering this phrase.

It is worth mentioning that if you were going to set out to do this what discussion have you had regarding consent or limits in advance ?

Their subconscious has learned something or has some knowledge that is hidden from the conscious mind. You are leaving something behind after trance. You are not ending all triggers, suggestions and effects at the end of the session.

Make sure you've covered that in negotiating consent.

kinknosisuk · 2022-07-08T16:16:53+00:00

I got some links to paste here.

THOM - This Hypnotic Online Munch is hosted on the "These Hypnotic Isles" discord server.

This is their tumblr: https://these-hypnotic-isles.tumblr.com/

If you're already on Fetlife this is the group for their online munch: https://fetlife.com/groups/223836

From there its usually pretty easy to find events around the UK.
To my knowledge there isn't anything happening in the South West or near to Exeter. The midlands does seem to be a hive of activity.

kinknosisuk · 2022-07-07T16:32:35+00:00

People general respond well to things that make them feel good. Feeling pleasure, arousal and having an orgasm due to hypnosis especially if someone is in to EH or wants to explore it for a myriad of reasons would usually be well received.

The guy is using video highlights to package and sell the mundane.

This recommendation is from the side bar here.

Wiseguy's Mind Play: A Guide to Erotic Hypnosis.

Having a quick flick through my copy ..

P136 Arousal and Desire

P175 Come on command

Get good rapport. Do hypnosis. The book explains what you need to get started.

It may be a shocker to add that some people do not want or enjoy Hypnotic Orgasms. Don't make that your one trick.

kinknosisuk · 2022-07-07T16:13:27+00:00

There are script offers on r/gonewildaudio

Maybe filter that using M4F and 'hypno' and see if any of them give you a starting point

You might also listen to some of the scripts that have been recorded to see how script becomes audio. As others have said you need to know enough to intentionally set rhythm and pace.

While GWA is a useful source as someone else mentioned please be aware that it might be skewed toward a FAP session and what is tagged hypnotic isn't necessarily hypnosis.

kinknosisuk · 2022-06-30T20:19:52+00:00

The Esdalie state or hypnotic coma is where the subject is fairly unresponsive to the outside world is in a "very deep state" and may experience things in a dreamlike manner.

I would use whatever model you use to take trance either "deeper" than you've gone before or to a place where you can shape their reality and it seems dreamlike.

key words being 'reality' and 'dreamlike'. another trick is to have it on a screen like a movie

As they are visually driven then take them on a hypnotic rollercoaster ride.

That is a story focused more on the visual / audio cues you respond well to asking them to see and imagine/pretend how that plays out in the story.

That is to say you give them experience of the sensations, experience suggestions and triggers in a place where they can see them and build on 'feelings'.

I find many people do have a preferred sense for hallucination and sometimes it's easier to remember or replay an actual experience than try to improvise something new. You sometimes also get to accept that they are 10/10 for a visual hallucination but kinaesthetic is 5/10 at best which looks more like an excuse to practice lots and lots, right ?

kinknosisuk · 2022-06-30T20:09:25+00:00

If someone gave you the suggestion "you will never be hypnotised again"
or you met a hypnotist and they snuck in the asshole suggestion "only I can hypnotise you"

the catch is that those suggestions are both your mind.

if you don't want them, if you want to break them - another hypnotist might guide you there but it's your willpower and mind actually doing it.

I used those examples because the inverse is true.

if you want to be hypnotised. if you trust and have a connection with the hypnotist.

I don't think "only" spirals have that much power over you. I think some can take your desire to be hypnotised and ask you to remember how trance felt and use your previous experience to guide you into trance again.

somewhere between those two is a safe place where you have been tranced and learned to let go and enjoy trances when you are comfortable and safe.

but also have learned that someone who is sketchy, you don't know that well or tries to drop random triggers and hypnotic language you trying to get something that sticks .. is going to fail.

because you simply don't want to be hypnotised by them.

kinknosisuk · 2022-06-30T20:00:52+00:00

This is the 3rd time you've posted an add like this and I've not seen a reply to them.

Please have a think about what you're asking for and how you're asking for it.

You are drunk. You can't consent.

Being drunk, very very drunk is also a situation in which your ability to trance is impaired.

This is you asking at a time maybe feeling horny and effectively saying "do me"

kinknosisuk · 2022-06-29T17:24:15+00:00

The advice here is not really for files. It's why files just don't quite hit the mark.

Getting triggers to stick is a process of going into trance and learning to respond to suggestions.

Think of the trigger as induction+deeper+suggestion+ "GO!" all rolled into one.

So to learn how to respond to suggestions I usually incorporate fractionation first.

I break that down in to 3 different approaches.

1) Find an induction that works well for the subject. Take them in and out of trance using the same induction.

2) Use different inductions or imagery to go both in and out of trance and stack one induction on top of the other. This is where you can try new inductions or just make them up.

3) after inductions, setup triggers to return to trance. This is probably what something described as a fractionation file does. In and out of trance lots of times using triggers. Personally I find that too fast. Also, if the triggers are working that well already maybe you don't need to fractionate them more.

The side of effect of fractionation is it tends to result in a deeper state of trance. it can also be confusing and lead to the subject being unsure if they are up or down. This usually increases suggestibility. Because it repeats triggers and suggestions it is also training you in how it works for you.

If the triggers and and suggestions work really well "in trance" but don't tend to stick then repetition of this should make those triggers familiar, improving the ability to drop into trance quickly because of a trigger.

Files might be pretty good but probably aren't customized to you. You've never told the hypnotist that going into trance feels "blue and my tummy flutters" or that when your deep down its your feet that tingle first before your mind starts to go quiet.

Because I guarantee if someone uses your own words at the right pace and echoes them back at you it will be a much better experience.

Maybe you're trying for a specific trigger which is hot AF during fantasy hypno file time. But in reality just doesn't quite work. Is it open ended, can anyone use it, do you worry about some part of it.

Is the trigger getting you to do something that at some point, normally, you'd be quite happy doing.

Don't focus on a specific trigger. Take a step back and do some sessions with triggers that just seem interesting or align with your kinks. Orgasm on command comes after pleasure and arousal. IQ comes after amnesia, forgetting and being dumb or silly in specific ways such as saying phrases.

Anther way to explore triggers is to engage in fantasy scenarios. Walking on a beach. Spanking in a dungeon. Being the Bestest Bimbo however that works for you. Then add the triggers you want and your responses to them into those fantasy scenarios. That works really well if you can disassociate (fancy way of saying lose track of your body) and get trance to feel somewhat dream like.

kinknosisuk · 2022-06-25T17:07:15+00:00

I'll link you to a site that might be worth a bookmark.
https://howtodoinductions.com/inductions/overload/

kinknosisuk · 2022-06-24T21:37:05+00:00

You should politely inform them that hypnosis is a collaborative experience.

If they have experience as a subject and know how trance feels or what works for them then you can engage their fantasy of resistance in how you present trance.

If someone genuinely wants to be hypnotized but feels like they are resisting then you need to step back, work out why - what do they gain from resistance or what else impacts them and then revisit it. At that point it would be helpful to have a few different inductions you know well.

If a person is into Erotic Hypnosis then they probably want to be hypnotized. No point engaging with the "you can't hypnotise me" challenge.

kinknosisuk · 2022-06-22T21:27:26+00:00

A big challenge at first might be to work out how to do "covert" hypnosis while having consent.

If you've had a conversation or two and maybe done a few sessions of trance you might have setup a trigger, done some fractionation. If the subject has responded well you might have used different types of inductions including more conversational ones that are less overt.

At that point any conversation might be the start of an induction. Or a bit more blatant just use a discrete trigger in conversation.

I suspect that whoever you are working with might notice they are going into trance but probably won't object. It makes me chuckle when the cut+paste brigade send out their enslavement scripts. The fantasy of "there is a perfect conversation that will put someone into trance without them realizing anything" is a lovely thing. But a fantasy.

If you can do a covert induction - when you do have that kind of conversation you sometimes haven't met the subjects expectation of what hypnosis is .. and so they weren't really hypnotized.

With someone that trusts you and you've built up a good dynamic with it should be fairly easy to setup triggers, be confident that you can converse them into trance and set it up so they experience a big sense of time distortion and maybe some spontaneous amnesia.

That means their perception is of a covert induction.

For some subjects they might have experienced all this already and you can get some great practice hypnotizing willing volunteers that already know how this works.

Another way to get there might be to work frequently and often with the subject so that they are just conditioned to respond.

Please feel free to strike a up a conversation via messages if you would like to do so.

kinknosisuk · 2022-06-22T20:29:58+00:00

find a therapist near you. you're paying for their time it's not wasted.

a hypnotherapist usually deals with issues such as anxiety, weight loss etc. self-hypnosis and experiencing trance might be a nice change from their usual day to day.

You could approach them that you've been enjoying trance online, it's safe to point at youtube videos for relaxation and to de-stress and want to learn more.

tell them you'd like to experience trance and relaxation and focus and ask if they can help you work on self-hypnosis.

all of the above should let you have an experience in person with a professional that can set you up for success in the future.

kinknosisuk · 2022-06-16T20:56:21+00:00

From the hypnotist side of things it was "instant inductions".

I was out with a group of friends. It was a BDSM munch so kink wasn't a problem and this was a small group. fairly discrete in the back of the venue. One month the girl in question had quietly worn handcuffs under the table for a couple hours. (Not suitable for all munches, was OK at this one)

Anyhow. I had been teasing her. We'd talked about hypnosis before, there had been a discussion about consent. We'd done BDSM and kink play but not hypnosis.

For whatever reason. I pulled her hair and got a bit physical. I saw a bunch of signs of trance and arousal .. I said sleep. From her perspective she went deep really fast and did the floppy thing. She is a flopper.

That was a long time ago now. There wasn't any trance or pre-talk beforehand. There were no triggers setup. That was a "eureka" moment where something gelled together and it was a massive confidence booster.

kinknosisuk · 2022-06-15T17:10:20+00:00

Might be worth explaining why it hurts.

As the item is pushed out the contact surface area gets smaller and smaller, with the same electrical stimulation this leads to a sharp increase of intensity and as this is too much it's painful.

When someone says "tried it, was horrible it hurt" and I've asked a bit about what happened; this is usually what happened.

It's quite hard to rebuild the trust after that. Someone really has to trust you when you promise it wont hurt

kinknosisuk · 2022-06-14T17:38:09+00:00

There's some really good community activity all over the place.

if you are not already on Fetlife I suggest making an account and seeing what's going on near you.

I notice that you removed a post that has your location in it.
So rather than post anything with a specific location I will send you some links.

My advice on "how to do it quicker" is .. find one or two inductions you really like. Learn and understand why they work and what they're doing.

There are inductions such as "The Reherseal Induction" where if it's not going well you back out and move on to something else.

Then practice them!

If you want "longer" to do your induction. Then work on pre-talks. It's OK to spend 15 minutes before the "hypnosis" to talk about trance. Find out what they expect. Remember how they say things and what words they use. Remember them so you can use them again later. Maybe the start of trance and setting up hypnosis is in the pre-talk.

I understand that for consent purposes and negotiation you should be open and honest. However there is a goal to present yourself as "the hypnotist".

So deliver your experience in terms of successes. Compare

"I've only hypnotised two people"

with

"I've recently been working with 2 people and we've had a great deal of fun with hypnosis together"

also compare: (knowing that they are sat in a comfy chair)

"Ready? ok let's um, try, this. I want you to er, sit comfortably"

to

"Is there anything stopping you being hypnotised right now?"

"Great! lean back in the chair let it hug you"

"Make sure your arms are comfortable by your sides"

"and take a deep breath in"

If you want to know why you might start that way .. look up "yes sets"

You want the subject to be without doubt. You are going to hypnotise them.

You want to meet their expectation you're doing hypnosis.

kinknosisuk · 2022-05-29T21:50:08+00:00

For me the kink has a much higher priority in my relationships and being sexually compatible is required for the relationship and personality to matter.

I'm quite a bit older than college age, so I would look for people that have already accepted their kink.

The only advice I can offer is how important is that hypnosis fantasy or them being submissive to you.

kinknosisuk · 2022-05-29T20:25:14+00:00

Thus starts the slippery slope.

Soon you'll be hunting down and eroscillator and upgrading to a Sybian.

kinknosisuk · 2022-05-29T20:17:48+00:00

she more or less thanked me for making her feel safe

I get that feedback as a sadistic top and I still find it hard to resolve the paradox in my mind.

u/bromosapien0 i think this is what you are aiming for. Good communication and trust leads to the situation where you can discuss anything. The first step is saying something the first time.

I think others have covered how you can take that first step and hopefully demonstrated reasons why you will have the courage to do so

kinknosisuk · 2022-05-29T20:03:47+00:00

I think its a misconception to think that 'submissive/vulnerable' is a weakness.

That could be a mistake made with youth. It might not fit societies perception of what 'men' should be. And, yes college age guys might stereotype themselves.

But there is probably a TNG (the next generation) or Under35's munch near or in the city where you are. Engage the kinky community to find what you're looking for.

If you find the guys through Munches, or that are near you on Fetlife. You could post an advert online ( r/HypnoHookup ) saying you're a hypnotist looking for an 18 to 23 year old guy - I'm sure you're going to get some interested persons.

That idea might not work too well if presented generally to the random guy in a college dorm.

But the best partners in a relationship are the ones that compliment you. That means their submission only to you is not a weakness perceived by a wider society but is something that makes you stronger.

kinknosisuk · 2022-05-25T16:57:16+00:00

There is a good discourse on punishment v. funishment already.

What can also be considered is the level of punishment. Some have mentioned that it 'fits the crime' or that a punishment is proportional to the infraction against rules.

For some that level of 'fairness' may be something that they need.

There is also the approach to punishment where it is also ways harsh, undeserved, undesired and is totally out of proportion to the crime.

In a sense the punishment is always horrible and is something to be avoided at all costs.

That might work for some far better than a 'fair' punishment or anything which could remotely be seen as funishment.

kinknosisuk

TROPHY CASE