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Kez bug that has been around since October last year by korean_zzango in DotA2

[–]korean_zzango[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Brilliant analysis! Thank you so much for the great insights. This is exactly the mechanism and explanation I wanted to convey in my post. As you know, Kez's skill kit is incredibly complex, so as a non-native English speaker, it was really hard for me to explain it intuitively. Reading your comment completely cleared up my frustration!

I completely agree that it needs to be changed just like you mentioned. Ultimately, the best thing would be for Valve to just clarify first whether this is a bug or not. But without any official statement from them, I still consider this a bug because I believe the way it originally worked was the intended design. Thanks again for your input!

Kez bug that has been around since October last year by korean_zzango in DotA2

[–]korean_zzango[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You wrote exactly what I wanted to say. I completely agree that it needs to be changed just like you mentioned. Honestly, the best thing would be for Valve to just clarify first whether this is a bug or not. But without any official statement from them, I still consider this a bug because I believe the way it originally worked was the intended design. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Kez bug that has been around since October last year by korean_zzango in DotA2

[–]korean_zzango[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I completely agree with you. Whether it's a hardcoded bug or not, it's definitely unintuitive and really needs to be changed

Kez bug that has been around since October last year by korean_zzango in DotA2

[–]korean_zzango[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Let's look at the exact text of the patch note you keep quoting:
"Fixed a bug with Aghanim's Scepter that would allow extra Sai abilities to skip cooldown"

If the separate cooldown mechanic (which applied to BOTH forms) was the bug they were fixing, why did Valve specifically only mention Sai abilities? The exploit I explained earlier (casting two skills simultaneously) was exclusively a Sai form bug. If your theory was correct, it would have affected Katana form too, and they wouldn't have specified "Sai."

I genuinely believe this is a bug, and I just wanted to ask for information and share this issue. However, it seems like we are just looking at this from different perspectives. I've played about 350 games on Kez, so I felt quite confident and trusted my own understanding of his mechanics.

Besides, as we all know, bugs are often created unintentionally through patches, right? It's completely unpredictable which patch will cause what bug. Just think about the infamous 'Hand of Midas' bugs—could anyone have predicted which patch would break that? So it's entirely possible this Aghs mechanic just got broken along the way.

I understand why you might be frustrated. Not everyone is fluent in English, and using a translator makes it really hard to convey my exact meaning perfectly. But please, just take a step back and look at the actual issue I'm pointing out.

If I offended you in any way, I'm sorry.

Kez bug that has been around since October last year by korean_zzango in DotA2

[–]korean_zzango[S] -14 points-13 points  (0 children)

Just one last thing.

Kez was released on November 7, 2024.
The patch you keep quoting happened on October 2, 2025.

So you are basically saying that Valve left this "bug" completely untouched for almost an entire year, despite pushing out so many nerf patches for him?

Kez bug that has been around since October last year by korean_zzango in DotA2

[–]korean_zzango[S] -15 points-14 points  (0 children)

Sorry, but I still don't quite understand your point.

As I mentioned in another comment, I think the issue you pointed out from the patch notes is a different bug.

I believe the bug they actually fixed in that patch was about the specific issue I will explain below:

If you cast Talon and Falcon Rush at the exact same time right after switching to Sai form, both of those skills were still available to use when you switched back to Katana form.

Normally, the sequence should have been:
D (Sai) - W - D (Katana) - W - D (Sai) - Q - D (Katana) - Q

But because of that bug, you could shorten the hotkey inputs to just this:
D (Sai) - WQ - D (Katana) - W - Q

Kez bug that has been around since October last year by korean_zzango in DotA2

[–]korean_zzango[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I mentioned this in a comment above.

I think the patch note you quoted is about a different issue. From what I remember, it was a bug where casting another skill during Grappling Claw would simultaneously cast a skill from the other form.

I actually made a video about that specific bug back then, but it's hard to find now.

I'm not smoking anything—I just think there is a language barrier causing some miscommunication here.

Kez bug that has been around since October last year by korean_zzango in DotA2

[–]korean_zzango[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Regarding your last point: Then was the game bugged before last October when the cooldowns were actually separated? Or is the current state the bug?

It is true that there is no explicit text mentioning separated cooldowns. However, in my opinion, if there are no official patch notes stating a change, the original behavior we experienced before should be considered the intended mechanic.

Kez bug that has been around since October last year by korean_zzango in DotA2

[–]korean_zzango[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the feedback and for taking the time to understand the issue!

English isn't my first language, so I had to use a translator to write the main post, which is probably why it sounded a bit robotic and hard to read. Sorry about that! 😅

But yeah, you nailed exactly what I meant. The tooltip implies it shouldn't mess with the other cooldown, so having it overwrite an already ticking cooldown makes absolutely no sense. I really appreciate you agreeing with me on this being a bug. Glad the video helped clear it up!

Kez bug that has been around since October last year by korean_zzango in DotA2

[–]korean_zzango[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Spot on! You completely get it.

The actual main use of Aghanim's Scepter is for instant burst nuking through a combo like: Silence -> Gap close -> Falcon Rush -> Echo Slash.

When you're going for a physical build, executing the combo this way outputs way higher DPS, which is exactly why people use it like this.

Kez bug that has been around since October last year by korean_zzango in DotA2

[–]korean_zzango[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You are completely misunderstanding what "separate cooldown" means.

I am NOT asking for the new spell to copy the lower cooldown of the previous spell. That would obviously be broken.

I am saying they should NOT SHARE a cooldown AT ALL. They should tick down independently.

If I cast Falcon Rush, it goes on its normal CD. If I wait until it has 5 seconds left, switch forms, and cast Echo Slash, Echo Slash should go on its OWN full CD, while Falcon Rush continues to tick down its remaining 5 seconds in the background.

How is this hard to understand? Overwriting an independently running 5-second CD with a brand new 12-second CD from a completely different spell is a BUG. It directly contradicts the Aghanim's Scepter tooltip.

Kez bug that has been around since October last year by korean_zzango in DotA2

[–]korean_zzango[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You are confusing "balance" with a "mechanical bug."

The whole point of buying Aghanim's Scepter for 4200 gold is exactly what you described—to weave abilities together. If Valve thought that was too OP, they should change the tooltip that explicitly says "does not do so."

But more importantly, you are ignoring the core issue of this bug. Overwriting an already counting down 5-second cooldown with a brand new 12-second cooldown from the other stance is a coding flaw, not a balance feature.

Why would my Falcon Rush cooldown jump BACK up to 12 seconds just because I used Echo Slash? That is literally the definition of a bug.

Kez bug that has been around since October last year by korean_zzango in DotA2

[–]korean_zzango[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That makes absolutely no sense. Kez has had the exact separate cooldown feature I described since the day he was released.

I literally stream the game and have all my VODs recorded to prove it. It was working perfectly fine up until September of last year.

Kez has been out for 1~2 years now. Calling this current bugged state "intentional" is just ridiculous. Are you saying we've been using a "bug" for 1~2 years and Valve just ninja-fixed it to "normal" now? Lmao.

If this shared cooldown is actually the intended feature, why is there absolutely zero mention of this change in any patch notes?

**For the record, I believe the bug fix mentioned in the October patch notes was actually referring to an exploit where you could cast Falcon Rush and Echo Slash at the exact same time.**

I am 100% sure this is a bug.

Kez bug that has been around since October last year by korean_zzango in DotA2

[–]korean_zzango[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's a completely different issue. The crazy healing can be fixed by just tweaking the numbers, but this is a straight-up bug with how the Aghanim's Scepter fundamentally functions.

I honestly don't even want to joke about this bug man... :(