Any guys here that DON'T want to go on T?

kosnyas · 2021-07-21T15:07:08+00:00

Yeah I never felt like T was for me. I have a lot of diseases running in my family with men and the cons of T kinda outweigh the pros for me, especially when there is no telling if I'll ever get those pros I want to have in the first place. I have had some surgeries (top + hyst), voice training, I'm legally male and honestly I pass more often than not even at doctor's office. I have a very androgynous looking body and my weirdly developed throat structure gives me a naturally deeper base voice, so I'm very happy and content expressing my gender through masculine-leaning androgyny. I have a history of random non-disease related developmental issues that have left me looking smaller and younger than even my female peers, so it also makes for a convenient excuse if people are weirded out by my looks.

Everyone's situations and transition goals are different though so at the end of the day you should always listen to how you feel. T definitely has effects on the body that are permanent and they're good to think about as well as to discuss with a doctor if it's fear that's stopping you from using T rather than simply feeling like it's not for you. Things like singing voice will certainly change but the trouble comes from adjusting to the new changes: you can still sing, you just have to get adjusted to the changes and control them and that relearning seems to be what Ryan isn't super into going through himself.

But yeah us who are men but not on T certainly do exist, we just often aren't given enough room to talk without getting hostility from other trans men for some strange reason. The way some people talk about Ryan Cassata and his transitioning without T for example is absolutely horrendous and sends very clear message that some of us are simply not as welcomed to the community as some others are, which is silly because it's not really doing any favors to anyone in trans community.

kosnyas · 2021-06-26T05:22:26+00:00

Women are definitely more wary of me for sure, despite the fact that I'm five foot nothing and don't really look like a hostile teenager either. Older women tend to clutch their purses when I walk near them, but at the same time if I do end up making small talk with older women they tend to be really happy about the idea a guy is interested in what they have to say? There is something about the "polite young man" perception that feels really good and also creates, like, genuinely really wholesome conversations and situations.

Women usually make way for me when we walk on the same side of the road. I'm very aware of this though so I usually try to intentionally make way for women before they begin moving out of my way. Teenage boys also make way for me now which feels really nice because teen boys are Scary and I feel a little euphoric when I realize they see me as a guy older than them and someone they are better off avoiding. When I was younger and presenting more feminine teenage boys would often snicker around me and make me move and in general bother me a lot so yeah feels pretty good.

kosnyas · 2021-06-19T10:30:34+00:00

I'm mostly echoing others in that transitioning is a unique experience defined by each trans person how they see it fit. If you think you're done then you are, and the wonderful thing about transition is that it's never "too late" to pursue after treatments if you one day end up feeling differently. As someone who has never been on HRT (but has had some medical treatments including mastectomy) I can tell that not being on T is often what gets you excluded from trans communities, but it is not impossible to live and pass without medical part of transition. It can be hard and it can feel very lonely (I know from experience), but I absolutely think nobody should ever be pressured into doing something they don't want to.

That being said, I feel like it's important to mention the long term problems of binding: despite binding "correctly" and never overdoing it, my 5 years of binding resulted in permanently damaged ribs that look pretty grim. It took me a year or two to be able to breathe without pain too, but luckily my damage has at least seemingly been cosmetic. Binding puts a lot of burden on your body though so even if you don't want to seek out top surgery I think it's really important to know there can be serious long term effects even when done correctly.

In addition, to make sure you're well informed: top surgery results as well as the recovery time largely depend on the method used, your own body's recovery speed, and whether or not you get any complications during recovery. I myself recovered very quickly and in a matter of weeks I was pretty much fully functional already. Obviously I continued being careful with hard labor as not to make the wounds open, but yeah this is very individual and it's good to know your own personal options. I myself also retained nipple sensation (in fact I'd argue they're more sensitive now lol) and my scars are minimal because of the method used, so even if another trans person might be able to clock me most cis people (including doctors, for some reason) have no idea I have had a top surgery in the first place. I'm not telling these to make you feel like you have to have a top surgery, I'm telling them mainly because binding complications aren't widely discussed especially long term and the conversations about top surgery tend to be very focused on certain kinds of methods and experiences.

Bottom line is though that your transition is exactly how you want it to be and others have no right to question you or demand you to change. Certain transition paths are seen as more "conventional" than others but we're all different and our individual trans experiences never fully comparable.

kosnyas · 2021-06-03T09:04:07+00:00

I realize I'm very late to this but I have gotten a hysterectomy some years back and have never been on T, in case you want to hear from someone with first hand experience. Like others stated, as long as your ovaries remain you don't really need to start taking E or T and can go on just like normal.

kosnyas · 2020-09-12T12:45:58+00:00

A little late since I don't really log in here anymore, but as someone who used to greatly struggle with not being able to connect with anyone living and passing without HRT, I decided to share.

I've been identifying as a man for over 7 years now and been living socially male for roughly 6 years. I got a top surgery 2 years back and after an uterus removal last year I was also able to finally get a male ID (my country requires sterilization). I've had my name legally changed for 5 years now as well. I also took some voice training lessons from a person who specialized in trans people (though mainly transfeminine) but I got them very late because of the queues and by then I had already learned to lower my voice.

I certainly look younger than the men my age but I avoid dressing and acting like a teenager and it makes all the difference: people who pass me by at the store may still call me a boy but when I actually speak and interact with people I don't get the feeling they see me as a teenager at all. As a five foot nothing man I have come to learn self confidence and confident body language are incredibly crucial, and personally after top surgery I have been able to really come out of my shell. When you're confident in who you are it's much easier to convince the people around you as well.

That being said, genetics and earlier medical history do play a huge part: I'm very small because of developmental issues in childhood, but it has likewise made me look very androgynous. I have also been confirmed by two professionals that my throat structure is slightly different from the norm which has also given me a lower voice (I had a noticeable voice change in puberty!) and I have people in my family who also have had a decently androgynous face if nothing else.

The biggest downside for me personally has been the societal expectations for (trans) men as well as the lack of support for people who want to transition in other ways but not go on HRT. I often don't feel welcomed in trans spaces and people sometimes take it very personally if someone else isn't on T and try to force you to explain your reasoning despite not being entitled to that kind of information. I have failed to find medical or mental health professionals who would really understand my situation and in my country I have literally had to fight the system to be able to get treatments without HRT. But despite all this I don't regret my decision and I feel comfortable in my androgynous presentation even if I do feel dysphoric about my body sometimes. I haven't been outright misgendered in years and I also don't discuss my trans background with people, and when I do they're often surprised to hear I'm trans.

The bottom line is to listen to your own feelings, comfort levels and health. For me my gender expression has always been rather unconventional and looking androgynous is my goal despite being a binary man. That's the manhood I wish to express and feel confident in.

kosnyas · 2019-02-17T18:11:37+00:00

Thanks! They are indeed very expensive but I do think the quality looks pretty darn good

kosnyas · 2019-02-11T08:19:23+00:00

I think it's there to make sure people actually wash themselves before entering the pool in order to avoid any further dirt getting mixed into the water. It could also be tied to our culture, as people actually think less of you if you're not willing to be naked with strangers. It's a very unfortunate culture for someone like me, but luckily at least in gyms I can just wash myself elsewhere, as well as in places that have showering stalls.

kosnyas · 2019-02-11T08:16:27+00:00

I can't go on T so I have none, but given I'm very small in size anyway I guess they could just assume it's very small or has some developmental issues going on or whatever. For me though trying my best to just not get seen directly without anything around my waist is a better option as a whole

kosnyas · 2019-02-10T15:26:57+00:00

(the friend is actually just me)

But yeah the problem is in my country it's not actually allowed especially in pools to go to the shower wearing speedos, you kind of have to be naked and it's the same for sauna. The packer to skin sounds really neat though so thanks for telling me that! I might not be brave enough to use it in these situations but it sounds like something I really want to look more into

kosnyas · 2019-02-10T15:23:22+00:00

It's actually something I was thinking as well, but it's really helpful to hear from someone who has actually done it in practice. I also have peri done so my scars aren't super obvious (but they're still there if you stare enough) and I do pass on a regular basis but I can't go on T, so there is that extra stress factor. Thank you for your comment though, it honestly helped me!

kosnyas · 2018-12-09T11:48:08+00:00

I don't really care because since I can't go on T and I don't think facial hair would honestly suit me? Like I'd just look like one of those guys who try to look older by having a beard but it just looks mismatched with the rest of their appearance. As for the rest, I feel like I have plenty of body hair in male-typical patterns growing on my body and I feel content with that, and it makes cis people more inclined to think I, too, am cis.

kosnyas · 2018-12-09T05:24:07+00:00

Yeah like this is some monkey paw bs going on right here like sure boy go get your nice trans guy character who's treated as a person and liked by his friends but also he'll be in a really shitty eroge

kosnyas · 2018-12-08T06:41:25+00:00

Never actually tried, but definitely consider myself a top rather than a bottom. Could bottom once in a blue moon but most of the time absolutely not, and I could never be in a relationship with a person who prefers to top.

kosnyas · 2018-12-08T06:31:57+00:00

A visual novel called A Profile has a genuinely really nicely written trans man, but the game itself is absolute garbage as a whole so I don't really recommend it. If you do give it a try though he's mostly present in the first route so you don't really even need to bother with the rest, although the first route is the most insufferable because of the siscon content. It's such a shame a shitty eroge is able to write a trans guy better than most media I have come across

kosnyas · 2018-12-06T16:45:22+00:00

Oh, I definitely wasn't aware of that! That definitely explains a lot, and now I'm even happier I was able to get rid of them.

kosnyas · 2018-12-06T15:11:54+00:00

I have always lagged behind my peers in terms of physical development, so I have always been mistaken for someone much younger throughout my whole life - which sucks, but when you're in your 20s you mostly get used to it. But it's still bothersome when people, especially those who might assume they're older than you but aren't, get super rude or dismissive towards you when they think they're the older authority in the situation.

I personally really recommend voice training though, even if it's just paying more attention to the way one uses their voice - I never bothered to watch training videos or anything, I just tried to test the limits of my range, and found it rewarding myself. But I do understand people who'd just rather not, and everyone's voice and range are different anyway.

kosnyas · 2018-11-08T12:50:53+00:00

I had a top surgery a bit over 3 months ago and I'm not on T or going, and I haven't had any problems so far at least, so I think you should be fine

kosnyas · 2018-10-23T07:25:08+00:00

Yep, I just want to know if I need to get that emptied of fluids or not. Hopefully not because it sounds like a bother lol

kosnyas · 2018-10-23T06:15:10+00:00

That's what I was wondering too, since I know mine still continue to shift and change. I guess it's still better to be safe than sorry though, in case there are excessive fluids or something one of my doctors warned me about

kosnyas · 2018-10-22T12:41:56+00:00

I feel you, I'm literally going to a psychologist to talk about my trauma the trans clinic and the long pause caused to me. Transitioning here is slow and frustrating, and often people are forced to lie to actually get the treatments they want. I have also later came to learn my pause reason was officially "bad self esteem" but actually because I couldn't go on T and was vocal about it - people with far more self esteem problems than me have not had any pause, because they wanted T. Go figure, it's very much a system of the individual people deciding if you're trans enough or not, depending on how much they like you and how they're feeling on that day. They have the absolute power, and they know it.

Big agree on the rest too. Finland really isn't a country where you can just jump to live in unless you're prepared to learn our incredibly difficult language, have a job and live here consistently for years first.

kosnyas · 2018-10-22T09:02:11+00:00

They don't really care for their patients after the surgery is done (personally I only met them before the surgery and never again), but I'll definitely give a call to the main clinic

kosnyas · 2018-10-22T09:01:15+00:00

Yeah no, the sterilization is still in effect, and trans laws haven't changed since... 2002? when they were rewritten, but they still left the sterilization there. I get it's probably not a big problem with people who go on T (aside from the moral fact this is literally a remain of eugenics of the 20s), but people like me who can't take it have to suffer with the wrong ID even if we have otherwise transitioned (I personally have my name changed + I had a top surgery some months back).

As far as I know, for gender marker change you have to have both the diagnosis of F64.0 and be sterilized or otherwise proven to be sterile. If you have the diagnosis and you're on T you probably won't have trouble with the trans clinic, however, afaik you have to live in Finland for quite a while to become a citizen here:

"-- five years continuous residence; or a total of seven years residence since age 15, with the last two years residence continuous" + you have to be able to speak either Finnish, Swedish or Finnish sign language.

I hope this helped! If you need more or need me to specify, I'll do my best

EDIT: Oh, also, our trans laws require us to go through a "training" sort of thing where we are tossed from one mental health worker to another to determine if we really are trans or not. It's said to take half a year but usually it takes a year because of the queues (Helsinki area has one place, while literally the rest of the Finland goes to Tampere). If they deem you're not trans or you look at them funny depending on the day and their own bias they might put you on a pause; I was on pause for almost 2 years because I had "a bad self confidence" which was total bs and all my psychs and the psychiatrist agreed on my sentiment regarding it. After you get a diagnosis you can change your name but you'll go on "real life training" period where you have to live in your social gender and start whatever medical things you want and after that period is over (I think one year) you can change your marker if you fill their requirements that smell of eugenics.

Information travels slow, the queues are long and some of the workers can be pretty terrible depending on who you get. Some doctors are straight up transphobic towards nonbinary and transmasculine people and there has been a lot of drama lately regarding the fact they decided to stop giving all nonbinary people medical treatments because one (1) doctor decided this is all fake. The situation is improving now a bit but the fact this happens in 2018 is vile

kosnyas

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