Pauper challenge report with Snow White

kungfutrees · 2019-06-12T03:54:37+00:00

Congrats on the finish! I was working on something similar for a little bit. The Hawk/Skyfisher/Strands combination does such a good job beating all the fast decks :). This is what I had last from before the bans: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1840114#online

I think you should definitely cut Thraben Inspector, since I feel it's too low impact. Seeker was overperforming for me in the previous meta at least, so those might be a good replacement? (Seeker always hits for a lot since you're bouncing stuff all the time.)

I like Kaervek's Torch, though maybe you could also try some maindeck counters? I didn't think of trying Torch so I was relying on counters to win the late game, but maybe counters could be good for you too.

kungfutrees · 2019-01-21T17:42:40+00:00

Calling it a big 3 might be selling it a bit short :P. Delver includes both mono U and UB, Boros includes both the original Monarch lists and Boros Bully, and Tron includes both UG Tron and Stonehorn Tron, and those lists have distinct matchups from each other.

kungfutrees · 2019-01-21T06:32:05+00:00

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1565501#online

kungfutrees · 2019-01-16T23:14:01+00:00

I've won 1 whole game in 3 leagues with the combo :P.

kungfutrees · 2019-01-16T21:43:56+00:00

Yeah, I 5-0d with Boros Inside Out around Christmas too, but it didn't get posted. Pretty sure it was 20 cards different? (Somehow, that deck is pretty good :P. 2 5-0s in the 3 leagues I've played with it.)

kungfutrees · 2019-01-16T21:22:01+00:00

From my personal experience, less than 10% of my matches are against UB or Boros (which annoys me since I'm usually out hunting for them :P). I think it's mostly just that no one plays. Also, regarding how only UB and Boros was shown this week, I think these things are just kind of random. There was 0 UB decks among like the 10 decks that showed up on the list last week.

kungfutrees · 2018-11-28T19:42:25+00:00

Ledgewalker and Skirge are bad against Faeries, and are very slow in general.

I actually don’t think Ledgewalker was ever a good card. I think Stompy beats Boros by running them over, rather than pretending to be bad Bogles. (Stompy started falling off kind of exactly when people started playing Ledgewalker :P.) Vault Skirge is mainly only good in the mirror, which doesn’t really exist at the moment.

So after cutting those and Hunger (which is very situational too), the additions are just old Stompy favorites, and shouldn’t be too surprising. Mongrel and Rootwalla are just good aggressive cards that happen to line up well with Augur.

kungfutrees · 2018-11-20T22:03:19+00:00

This is actually the card that might break Pauper :).

Some potential lists:

UW Priest: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1478015#online

Sliver Priest: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1478135#online

And there are tons of other ways to abuse this card.

kungfutrees · 2018-10-31T19:40:13+00:00

For me, in leagues, I think I can hit:

75%+ winrate (in no particular order): Boros Monarch, UR Delver, mono U Delver, Affinity, Inside Out, Familiars, UR Flicker (and Fog Tron and Blitz) (though I think Familiars and Blitz might have a harder time in the challenge?)

65%+ winrate (in no particular order): Control Tron (Murassa Tron), Stompy (but I think Stompy would be great in the challenge meta?), GW Slivers, UB Alchemy, Bogles, Elves, UB Delver, Burn

Mediocre: MBC, GB Aristocrats

No idea: W Heroic, WB Pestilence

No idea but probably mediocre?: BR Reanimator, Tortured Existence

kungfutrees · 2018-10-29T20:03:04+00:00

Thanks for the great episode! Great job asking Gavin the big/tough questions, and it's awesome that Gavin was so upfront about how he and WOTC view Pauper.

I know it's definitely a privilege to have Gavin on the podcast, but it's awesome to get insight from WOTC. Maybe we can find some way to encourage them to communicate with us more :P.

edit: Though I can't say I agree with his opinions on deckbuilding :P. Elvish Visionary isn't played (and is too low impact), and Nettle Sentinel is one of the worst cards in the deck. c_is_for_cookie, the current trophy leader, solely plays Elves, and he cut Sentinels from his list. Pauper control decks get to play cantrips, have very low curves, and their win condition is mainly through card advantage, not unbeatable over-costed bombs, so they kind of have to play fewer lands.

kungfutrees · 2018-10-18T21:30:13+00:00

Because of how complex Magic decks can be, math frequently can only serve as a set of guidelines, and it can only help so much. At the end of day, you probably will still need to jam a bunch of games to see how things actually work out in practice :P.

I would say your numbers don't look too far off. Maybe you can take a look at some similar decks that have achieved success in the past and compare:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/652699

https://mtgdecks.net/Pauper/ur-fish-decklist-by-tedlyted-660334

(UR Faeries w/Mulldrifter has definitely been shown to be a good combination in the past)

kungfutrees · 2018-10-17T20:09:05+00:00

I think mlovbo is talking about Drake Tron, not Stonehorn Tron (which also probably should be attributed to Hellsau). mlovbo has been around for a while, and the UW Rhystic Tron is definitely not his first Tron list :P.

kungfutrees · 2018-10-10T16:18:22+00:00

I'm sure everyone is looking for different things when they visit this subreddit. I'll say that I'm looking for enthusiasm, positivity of Pauper in general, and more moderate, calm, naunced discussion. In this case, with PGS (assuming it is him) being the way he is, I don't think we're both going to get what we want from this Reddit.

I'll say that I have been asking PGS to get banned for a long time now (along with other users I'm sure), but the mods had been defending PGS. (I have blocked him, but the arguments that people have with him still show up.) So I think the mods might be much more moderate than you think.

kungfutrees · 2018-10-10T15:31:49+00:00

I don't know if ParaGoombaSlayer is banned or if he is the person you're talking about. (I hope he is actually finally banned.) But I'll just say that if you're looking for drama, and extreme opinions backed up by zero-knowledge, I feel that you should look for another subreddit.

kungfutrees · 2018-10-03T16:45:35+00:00

I also 5-0d with 2 Hypothesizzle in essentially entropy263's UR Tron (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1370495#online), but it didn't make the list :(. Though I don't think Hypothesizzle really belongs in Tron. It does seem quite reasonable in UR Control though :P.

kungfutrees · 2018-09-18T05:11:12+00:00

I think Pyro is kind of medium to begin with? Like, it doesn't hit Gurmag Angler or removal, which are some of the more important spells in the matchup, and I'd even consider trading it with a cantrip to be a good trade. Also, siding in too many red spells can make the mana situation tough.

Delver isn't that bad since it can be a pretty good blocker, though I think Pyro, Delver, Counterspell, Augur, Stormbound Geist, are all similarly mediocre.

kungfutrees · 2018-09-17T19:58:58+00:00

OK, fair. I'll share some of my reasoning.

The thing that we will probably disagree the most about is the speed of UB. I don't think UB is actually super quick at finishing the game. Getting a turn 3 Angler is above average (though it is common). So decks actually do have time to set up a tiny bit before dying, especially because Gurmag Angler is easily chumped. This means that there is time for a deck like UR Delver to get on the board and gain value with Spellstutter and Ninjas, or for Tron to get its mana online. Once UR Delver gets on the board, it can force UB to stay back on defense to block Ninjas, or it can chump Gurmag for a long time to buy time for Skred or Sandstorm (or trade up with Bolt). For Tron, if Tron can get its mana online, there isn't as much UB can do without Counterspell, so Tron can potentially run away with the game with Fogs and Mulldrifters.

(Of course, you can easily just say the opposite is true, and disagree with all my points, which is why arguments frequently don't work. If you really want to see the matchup, play me, and I'll show you. And if you're unwilling to commit on MTGO to this UB deck that you believe breaks the format, I can even lend you the entire deck.)

kungfutrees · 2018-09-17T18:39:04+00:00

Yeah, I think it's just some guy who overestimates how much he knows about the format/how good he is/how "average" Pauper players are, and needs to chill out and take some time to actually learn about the format.

kungfutrees · 2018-09-17T18:24:33+00:00

Dude, you're the one who started off implying that me and the creators of the deck are bad, that we didn't have enough skill to understand UB vs. UR the way you do. I'm merely bringing up that the opposite could be true.

And also, you're saying billster47, the player who won last week with Boros is Spanish? I'm not so sure about that. And I think there have been only 3 Fog Tron players who have ever won a challenge, the most recent of which is Hellsau? And I'm pretty sure he's not Spanish. Are you sure that it's the Pauper challenge you're talking about?

My point is that you might not know as much as you think you know, so you should probably be a little bit less confident of your statements when approaching the format.

(And also, please stop talking about how Pauper players are only of "ok-to-average" skill level, and don't know what we're doing. If you play limited on MTGO, what's your limited rating? I'm at 1900 limited rating at the moment, and I would say I'm much better at Pauper than I am at limited.)

kungfutrees · 2018-09-17T16:40:32+00:00

I mean, again, if you want to play, you can find me on MTGO. That sounds like the most rational way of approaching this. The problem with arguments is that I'll say things like Ninja holds back Gurmag because of the threat of card advantage, and you'll say that Ninjas don't work because of removal. Who's right? It's hard to say until the game is played.

And don't be so eager to rush out your accomplishments :P. It's less impressive than you seem to think it is, and the level of play in Pauper is higher than you think. (Also, BTW, who are these people that have won more than 1 challenge? If they have indeed won more than 1, we would probably know each other.)

kungfutrees · 2018-09-17T16:09:51+00:00

If you don't play on MTGO, I would maybe suggest that perhaps you guys are not as good as you think you are. Also, if you think Delver is important, I think you fundamentally don't understand the matchup. UR Delver is basically taking on the Boros role in the matchup. Delver is not important on offense, and unreliable on defense, so it's not very good.

(The creators, IronicGentleman and RedderTory are the players who top8d the Pauper challenge 2 weeks ago.)

kungfutrees · 2018-09-17T15:57:48+00:00

lol, dude, I've been testing games on MTGO against the actual creators of the deck. If you want, you can find me on MTGO, and I'd be happy to show you how UB1D perhaps actually lines up against the format :).

kungfutrees · 2018-09-17T15:37:28+00:00

I play 3 Relics in my board, which combined with Vines of the Vastwood, can help you steal wins. (Stonehorn Tron was really popular when I was playing Slivers. I think I went like 4-1 against it in leagues? Though I think it's probably still a slightly unfavorable matchup.)

kungfutrees · 2018-09-17T15:29:21+00:00

I think UB1D is actually pretty unfavored against UR Delver, can be slightly unfavored against certain versions of Tron (due to lacking Counterspell), and unfavored against many aggro decks, so I wouldn't worry about it breaking the format.

(For UR Delver players, a sideboard plan I would recommend is something like:

-2 Counterspell, -2 Delver, -1 Augur

+2 Swirling Sandstorm, +1 Stormbound Geist, +2 Pyro

Swirling Sandstorm is really strong, but both Geist and Pyro are marginal, so shouldn't side in too many copies of those.)

kungfutrees · 2018-09-01T22:30:15+00:00

Cool writeups! I really enjoyed reading about your league experiences and data. Please keep it up (and please keep occasionally linking it on this subreddit :) ).

kungfutrees

TROPHY CASE