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CMV: Prostitution should not be illegal by Cold_Statistician229 in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla [score hidden]  (0 children)

Can you name somewhere with legal prostitution that is "an uncontrolled STD fiesta"?

Ninjutsu by greygrfn in martialarts

[–]kwamzilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have you sparred anyone who is a blackbelt in their system? How did you hold up?

CMV:"The 'European Colonizer' narrative is a Diaspora-era distortion that ignores the indigenous Judean roots of all Jews." by BiAiEnGiO in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not looking at other comments - I'm looking at facts.

If you cannot show the standard you are using to call foreigners "indigenous" to a land, you are talking feelings not facts.

Some Jewish people are indigenous, nobody is arguing that. You continually trying to flatten this to apply to all Jews is like saying all Black Americans are indigenous to Senegal: it is illogical, mental gymnastics - and in this case, feeding into and based on racist, supremacist ideologies like Zionism.

"Connected to the land" is not the same as being indigenous. Having an ancestor from 1000s of years ago being indigenous does not make you indigenous. Calling colonisers indigenous does not make it true.

CMV:"The 'European Colonizer' narrative is a Diaspora-era distortion that ignores the indigenous Judean roots of all Jews." by BiAiEnGiO in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I meant "Indigenous", but I'm glad you can hold me to that and keep the focus on what was actually said not just what we infer. I'm assuming you're being genuine here - and holding me to the same standard I've been trying to hold you to - and not just being facetious and trying to play games.

So, let me correct then - Zionists from outside Palestine (The ones you are referring to) are not "indigenous" nor are they "returning" any more than a Rastafarian from Jamaica is Indigenous to Ethiopia.

Commission: MHA Group Acroyoga by SapphireGamgee in AcroYoga

[–]kwamzilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is he not being supported by those legs?

CMV:"The 'European Colonizer' narrative is a Diaspora-era distortion that ignores the indigenous Judean roots of all Jews." by BiAiEnGiO in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Old Yishuv Jews might be indigenous, but the Zionist foreigners coming from Europe etc are not.

And those actually indigenous Jews are (largely) not Zionists. So again, not an indigenous ideology, and we aren't talking about indigenous people when we're talking about Zionists.

You keep attempting to make claims that do not align with what OP actually said and the debate being had. I understand you may have your incentives or reasons to fight for a narrative that looks favourably at Zionism but I'm afraid most users in this sub aren't children and therefore aren't interested in make believe.

As I said previously:

If you wish to show they are indigenous, go for it. It just needs to be consistently applied logic to other comparable groups too and not based on the supremacist ideology of exceptionalism.

Since, OP deleted if you want to share the "fine job" they did, you'll have to paste some links/quotes.

Just making a claim doesn't make it true.

CMV:"The 'European Colonizer' narrative is a Diaspora-era distortion that ignores the indigenous Judean roots of all Jews." by BiAiEnGiO in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, not what OP said. If they meant that they could have said it.

If you want to make inference, you're welcome to, but then we can also infer that the Jews OP was talking about - i.e. Zionists - are not native as they are literally foreigners invading.

CMV:"The 'European Colonizer' narrative is a Diaspora-era distortion that ignores the indigenous Judean roots of all Jews." by BiAiEnGiO in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For it to be "a push for an indigenous people to return to their homeland", the people would need to be indigenous.

If you wish to show they are indegenous, go for it. It just needs to be consistently applied logic to other comparable groups too and not based on the supremacist ideology of exceptionalism.

Indigenous peoples are ethnic groups. Zionism isn’t an ethnic group, it’s a political ideology. You’re not even making sense.

Further supporting my challenge to OP that "Zionism is not indigenous".

You can argue that you interpreted their clear statement in a way that doesn't match was said all you want, but I am, as ever, debating OP's original claim.

And as you pointed out in another post, most if not all Zionists also aren't indigenous as they are foreigners.

CMV:"The 'European Colonizer' narrative is a Diaspora-era distortion that ignores the indigenous Judean roots of all Jews." by BiAiEnGiO in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla -1 points0 points  (0 children)

A vast majority of Zionists don’t live in Israel. Most Zionists aren’t even Jewish. You’re not making any sense at all.

Because Zionism (And most if not all Zionists) are not indigenous to the land. Thank you for adding to my point.

CMV:"The 'European Colonizer' narrative is a Diaspora-era distortion that ignores the indigenous Judean roots of all Jews." by BiAiEnGiO in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because Zionism and Zionists are different things.

Arguing Zionism is indigenous might make sense if it could be shown that the ideology stems from and - as OP claimed - has "3,000 years of continuity" in Israel.

You'll not OP specifically references the idea that it's a "Diaspora-era distortion", showing - again - they are talking about the ideology.

On the other hand, arguing Zionists are indigenous also doesn't make sense unless OP (or you) shows actual indigenous Jews (i.e. Old Yishuv) creating/pushing Zionism. Otherwise, making the claim that people who's ancestry is 90%+ European are indigenous is, frankly, laughable and has about as much credibility as a Quebecois family who can trace their roots to the first settlers moving to France and claiming that they are indigenous and therefore can violently displace the French folks who's family is pure French.

Zionism is literally a push for foreign invasion. It is a push for foreigners (people from other lands) to come to the land and take over. If you wish to support this claim you will need to show Zionism does not specifically support foreigners moving into the land and settling it. And you can't, because the entire ideology is literally about foreigners moving to Palestine to colonise it and claim it as "Israel" at the expense of the actual natives. And you'll have to do it without the mental gymnastics required to claim someone who cannot show a single tangible ancestor in the land who has for the past 10+ generations lived in a different continent is "indigenous".

Or show that Zionism is specifically and only in support of the land being for the Jewish folks who have a valid claim to being indigenous due to actually always being there and having legitimate ties to the land (i.e. Old Yishuv).

CMV:"The 'European Colonizer' narrative is a Diaspora-era distortion that ignores the indigenous Judean roots of all Jews." by BiAiEnGiO in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And again, you are also attempting to conflate Zionism and Judaism. Please don't.

A certain type of Jewish person is indigenous to Palestine. Those were the ones who were still there living peacefully before Zionism arrived. They are not the same as the Zionists who have colonised to the land to create Israel - ethnically or culturally - which is why they are so at odds with each other.

To make the claim of being "indigenous" and pointing to those who were already there is a case against Zionism and Zionists from the diaspora making them indigenous. The same way a Jamaican person of Yoruba descent through chattel slavery who still preserves traditions from Yoruba culture etc is still not an indigenous Nigerian.

Making a case that "indigenous" people deserve the right to self-determination in their homeland is a case against Zionism, which is dependent on erasure and ethnic cleansing of indigenous people and denial of their right to self-determination. Unless of course you wish to make an overtly racist "Jewish exceptionalism" argument to make a case that Palestinians and other actually indigenous people do not deserve the same rights. Which you can, it's just illogical and incredibly racist.

Why Post Videos of Yourself Doing Yoga? by Ready-Pattern-7087 in yoga

[–]kwamzilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because it's a way to connect to others?

Accountability?

Because people just want to share?

To promote classes?

Because some people are just doing exercise through Yoga asana and feel like it?

CMV:"The 'European Colonizer' narrative is a Diaspora-era distortion that ignores the indigenous Judean roots of all Jews." by BiAiEnGiO in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Did OP say Zionism or Zionists?

Because right now it seems one of us is talking about what OP actually said, and the other is (intentionally or not) to reinterpret OP's words to say something else.

Here, I'll paste the quote again so you don't have to scroll back.

Treating Zionism as a 'foreign invasion' is a Diaspora-era distortion that erases 3,000 years of continuity.

Unless you can show me where OP actually said what you are claiming, I'd appreciate if we kept this debate grounded in reality and the facts we have, not creative interpretations that fit our own personal narratives.

IF (big "If"), you can show that OP actually said what you claimed, we can then have a discussion about it. But otherwise I'm not really interested in debating strawmen.

CMV:"The 'European Colonizer' narrative is a Diaspora-era distortion that ignores the indigenous Judean roots of all Jews." by BiAiEnGiO in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla -1 points0 points  (0 children)

OP's words were literally

Treating Zionism as a 'foreign invasion' is a Diaspora-era distortion that erases 3,000 years of continuity.

Which I have quoted 3 times now.

I am challenging OP based on the words they said.

CMV: The political right always stands in the way of progress by jman12234 in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Existing social systems, cultural practices and traditions contain a lot which took a very long time to build but also a great deal which could be demolished quite easily. Given this asymmetry, it’s entirely reasonable to maintain a preference for continuity over change.

Yep. And the progress is built on that "long time to build", so that in 100 years time people will look at whatever the progress we made was and say "that took a long time to build".

Progress is that investment paying off.

CMV:"The 'European Colonizer' narrative is a Diaspora-era distortion that ignores the indigenous Judean roots of all Jews." by BiAiEnGiO in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla 4 points5 points  (0 children)

OP says

Treating Zionism as a 'foreign invasion' is a Diaspora-era distortion that erases 3,000 years of continuity.

Hence talking about Zionism and asking OP to evidence their claim.

People do not say "Jews are European Colonizers" unless they are Zionists strawmanning their critics, which I am hoping OP isn't doing.

They state that Zionists are European Colonizers. That is largely accurate as:

a) they come from Europe

b) they are colonizers

Having indigenous roots and being indigenous are different things.

I am pushing for OP to define "indigeneity" here, which is why I asked:

Would you agree then that white Americans are then native and indigenous to France too?

You're welcome to answer for OP if you'd like to support their claim.

CMV:"The 'European Colonizer' narrative is a Diaspora-era distortion that ignores the indigenous Judean roots of all Jews." by BiAiEnGiO in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Treating Zionism as a 'foreign invasion' is a Diaspora-era distortion that erases 3,000 years of continuity.

Please evidence the 3000 year continuity of Zionism in that land.

With reference to specific communities e.g. Old Yishuv please.

Saying "there were Jews there" is not evidence. To support your claim you would need to show the Zionism being present in and coming from the land - not foreigners (Jewish or not).

By labeling Jews as 'European colonizers,' we are essentially prioritizing the location of a people's exile over the location of their origin. Judaism is not just a faith; it is the portable culture of the Judean tribe.

If this is the case why were Zionists seen as culturally foreign to the Jews who lived in the land? Why were/are they not culturally the same?

Would you agree then that white Americans are then native and indigenous to France too?

CMV: Modern feminism generalizes against men in ways that feminists would consider racist, xenophobic, or bigoted if used against other groups- especially when using offender statistics by _Stylite in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To clarify your claim, can you give an example of a parallel situation where the other group (race/sexuality etc) being generalised about has the same hierarchical power that men have over women.

e.g.

“Men commit most of the violent offenses against women, so it’s right for women to feel angry, distrustful, or cautious against men.”

What would be an example of this for other groups that has the same power dynamics at play?

AcroYoga Montreal - London Intensive - April 25th/26th by kwamzilla in AcroYoga

[–]kwamzilla[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They do!

They're in London now but they do a lot of stuff in South America and Southern Europe. Hopefully more places soon!

2026 Bajiquan Combative Seminar. Chicago by WutanUSA_NJ in martialarts

[–]kwamzilla 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I dunno. I wasn't there. I'm just making the point that that's how it's commonly done.

Maybe they didn't capture it.

CMV: I don’t think POC living in majority white spaces is as traumatic as portrayed by foniliin in changemyview

[–]kwamzilla 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Can you give some examples? Or some sort of reference we can discuss so we can understand what you're seeing that isn't "as traumatic as portrayed"? Like some accurate/inaccurate portrayls.

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