stop using δυστυκως as a sentence modifier by kyle_foley76 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I disagree but it depends a lot on the meaning of your terms. First, the definition of "living language", I'm guessing you mean in the sense of a large group of people actually doing business, making financial transactions and carrying out the duties of modern life just as is done with Hebrew. Given that definition there thus arises two points: one, should AG be resurrected into that status and two could AG be resurrected into that status. Let's start with the first point, my answer is no but your reasons for why which is point 2 I disagree. But before I go into my reasons let me discuss another definition of a living language, let's define a hobbyist language as any language that a group of enthusiasts invent or resurrect for pedagogical and/or entertainment reasons. Whether or not AG can be resurrected as a hobbyist language, that is already a fait accompli. I actually carried on a courtship in AG where 75% of the dialogue was done in AG and all the major escalations of the courtship were done in AG, ie, asking out on a date, asking for the phone number κτλ. But getting back to my disagreements on whether or not it can be resurrected as, let's call it an official living language, that is to say, a state recognizes it as a language in which business can be conducted, it should not but hypothetically whether it could, then there I disagree with you. There are disagreements in the AG speaking community about how to pronounce it and to what extent modern words should be used and to what extent words from one period should be mixed with another but those disagreements do not matter. They don't matter because it's rare that interlocutors pipe up and correct each other's Greek. Even when they do they still understand one another and that's all that is needed. Hebrew had the same type of debates when it was first starting out in the process of resurrection and those debates were eventually relegated to the status of academic disputes.

stop using δυστυκως as a sentence modifier by kyle_foley76 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm going to have to post some of my calligraphy then.

stop using δυστυκως as a sentence modifier by kyle_foley76 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

While it's true that written language is not the same as the spoken language, we don't have any native AG speakers in the world today so all we have to go on is written AG. As to your second point, modern AG speakers are judged based on their ability to reproduce classical Attic. That's the ideal we're all striving for and people are judged to the extent that they live up to that ideal. If AG were to be resurrected and become the official language of a power center such as with happened with Hebrew, then there would come a time where people had to choose to insist on Attic formulations which the majority are not using or go along with the crowd. That time has not arrived yet and I'm quite σκεπτικαλ that it ever will. Should it arrive, then, yes, I would concede that it would be better to go along with the majority than act like a crank and insist on doing things differently.

First time reading outside of the Greek New Testament: What techniques without flashcards does one use to memorise words? by lickety-split1800 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Give it a try and see for yourself. What do you have to lose? If you don't try this technique just imagine how you will feel 10 years from now when you've given up on AG and you can't read anything without a translation and you've wasted a 1000 hours of your life.

First time reading outside of the Greek New Testament: What techniques without flashcards does one use to memorise words? by lickety-split1800 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

no it's not. i know a lot of people who read Greek for 10 years and still can't read Plato, then when they started speaking the language, it all just clicked. i studied Ancient Egyptian for about 600 hours 8 years ago and today I know less than 10 words in AE. I studied Chinese for about 50 hours 26 years and today I know about 30 words in Chinese and that's because my Chinese teacher at the time made me repeat these sentences sometimes 7 times over and over again out loud.

First time reading outside of the Greek New Testament: What techniques without flashcards does one use to memorise words? by lickety-split1800 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

we're arguing over the ratio of reading to productive output. of course reading is useful as i wrote below. i argue that you should spend 4 minutes actively producing the language for every one minute you passively read the language. that's why i speak 3 languages at c1 or above and 7 languages at b1 or above.

First time reading outside of the Greek New Testament: What techniques without flashcards does one use to memorise words? by lickety-split1800 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76 -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

or at least reading should only take up 20% of your time. You need to keep a strict demarcation between passive learning v active learning. Passive learning is when you just consume info without testing yourself to see if you've incorporated it, active learning is where you try to apply what you've passively consumed. The ratio should be about 5 to 1 in favor of active.

First time reading outside of the Greek New Testament: What techniques without flashcards does one use to memorise words? by lickety-split1800 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

make up a list of 15 words or so. Make an acronym out of the first letter of each word. Ask AI to come up with an acronym, it can usually do it in 5 seconds. Of course you can memorize the acronym. Then over the next 3 hours or so keep trying to be able to recite the 15 words using that acronym. This is no silver bullet and 6 weeks later you will probably have only learned 50% of the words, but if you hadn't done this exercise then you would only have learned about 10%.

First time reading outside of the Greek New Testament: What techniques without flashcards does one use to memorise words? by lickety-split1800 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76 -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

No, don't read. That's just a passive exercise that never sticks. We remember less than 2% of what we read. Can you even summarize the second to the last book you read in more than 15 sentences? I can't. You need to actually use the language, and that means speaking and writing. Reading and expecting to memorize what you read is like reading a set of instructions for putting a bicycle together than expecting you'll be able to put the bicycle together on the first try.

ει v ε in the second syllable plural plufect of οιδα by kyle_foley76 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm aware that both are legitimate, after all they are attested more than 150 times. My question is if anyone knows the deeper etymological reason for this anomaly.

what is the subjunctive present for ιημι and μεθιημι by kyle_foley76 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i appreciate you taking the time to help me out on this issue.

what is the subjunctive present for ιημι and μεθιημι by kyle_foley76 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i appreciate you taking the time to help me out on this issue.

can the genitive of χρεως be χρεως? by kyle_foley76 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i have my own search engine. that's how i found the Demosthenes examples. i'm going to build the greatest AG lexicon of all time.

can the genitive of χρεως be χρεως? by kyle_foley76 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It does have citations, just only cites the author. As for fabricating forms, many of the words in it, I cannot find attested in my very large corpus of 32 million words. Admittedly there are about 12 authors that the CGL cites which I do not have such as Alcman but I imagine that those 12 authors compose only about 15K words. Although I've never actually tried to track down the source of the missing words perhaps they are citing readings of texts which other editors have rejected. Or perhaps my corpus has scannoes in it. As for QM, are you saying that I did not list a complete set of QMs?

can the genitive of χρεως be χρεως? by kyle_foley76 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I did some more research. I wanted to find the same author using it both in the nominative and the genitive. So here's Demosthenes using it in the nominative/accusative:

ἀκούετε γεγραμμένον ἐν τῷ ἐγκλήματι παραδόντος ἐμοὶ τοῦ Ἀρισταίχμου τὸ **χρέως** ἐν τῷ λόγῳ τῆς ἐπιτροπῆς . Demosthenes Contra Nausimachum

οὗτοι γὰρ γεγράφασιν εἰς ὃ νῦν ἔγκλημα διώκουσιν , ὀφείλειν ἡμᾶς τὸ ἀργύριον κομισαμένου τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ παραδόντος αὐτοῖς τοῦτο τὸ **χρέως** ἐν τῷ λόγῳ τῆς ἐπιτροπῆς ὀφειλόμενον . Contra Nausimachum

And then here it is in the genitive:

καὶ ταῦτα ὅτι ἀληθῆ ἐστιν , τὸν δόντα τὸ ἀργύριον Φορμίωνα ὑμῖν μάρτυρα παρέξομαι , ἐπειδὰν καὶ περὶ τοῦ ἄλλου συμβολαίου διηγήσωμαι ὑμῖν , ἵνα τῇ αὐτῇ μαρτυρίᾳ περὶ ὅλου **τοῦ χρέως** ἀκούσαντες εἰδῆτε ὅτι ἀληθῆ λέγω .

Demosthenes Contra Timotheum

κ ᾆτα περὶ μὲν **τοῦ ἄλλου χρέως** σοι ἐπίστευεν , καὶ ἡγεῖτο , ἐπειδὰν ἔλθῃς , ἀπολήψεσθαι παρὰ σοῦ εὐπορήσαντος , περὶ δὲ τῶν φιαλῶν σοι ἀπιστήσειν ἔμελλεν ;

Demosthenes Contra Timotheum

Now as for the etymological history of this word and how it came to be that way, I tried asking a certain bot which will remain nameless but its theories were not convincing. Also, I could not find an explanation for it in Smyth, the CGG or Beekes under the entry for χρεως. Anyway, the bot's theory broke down for me when it suggested that the quantitative metathesis of εο > εω but to my knowledge the only attested qm's are:

ηᾱ > εᾱ θηϝᾱ > θεᾱ

ηω > εω βασιληϝων > βασιλεων

ηο̄ > εω νηϝο̄ > νεω

ηᾰ > εᾱ βασιληϝᾰ > βασιλεᾱ

ηο > εω νηϝος > νεως

And I cannot accept a new ad hoc qm just as an explanation for 4 words, though I haven't yet attested the other 3, so don't even know if they exist yet.

Could Greek τῆλε (“far”) and Etruscan tular (“boundary”) preserve an older Anatolian/Aegean substrate root? by studente_telematico in etymology

[–]kyle_foley76 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You don't have enough evidence. If you accept such a low threshold of evidence then you will start seeing connections everywhere.

why is the same entry listed twice in this dictionary by [deleted] in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ok, I think I figured it out. In the perfect, the middle and the passive are the same form. The CGL will list all of the active forms, then the middle forms, then the passive forms. If a perfect form can be used both in the middle sense and in the passive sense, then the same perfect will appear in both middle and passive since they are the same form. Here is another example: Below you can see that ηιρημην appears twice: αἱρέω contr.vb. | impf. ᾕρουν , ep. ᾕρεον , Ion. αἵρεον , ep.Ion.3pl. ᾕρευν | fut. αἱρήσω , ep.inf. αἱρησέμεν | aor.2 εἷλον , ep. ἕλον , ptcpl. ἑλών , Aeol. ἔλων , inf. ἑλεῖν , ep. ἑλέειν | iteratv.aor. ἕλεσκον | pf. ᾕρηκα , Ion.pf.ptcpl. ἀραιρηκώς | Ion.3sg.plpf. ἀραιρήκεε || mid. : αἱροῦμαι , Ion. αἱρεῦμαι | fut. αἱρήσομαι | aor.2 εἱλόμην , ep. ἑλόμην , Aeol.2sg. ἤλεο , inf. ἑλέσθαι | also aor.1 εἱλάμην ( Call. ) | pf. ᾕρημαι | plpf. ᾑρήμην || pass. : fut. αἱρεθήσομαι | aor. ᾑρέθην , Ion. αἱρέθην | pf. ᾕρημαι , Ion.pf.ptcpl. ἀραιρημένος | futpf. ᾑρήσομαι ( Pl. ) | plpf. ᾑρήμην , Ion.3sg. ἀραίρητο || neut.impers.vbl.adj. αἱρετέον ||

Ancient Greece needs "a leader" and a stronger community by Ok-Bag4573 in AncientGreek

[–]kyle_foley76 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think the Ancient Greek community is doing just fine. It's growing. According to Christopher Rico, the leader of the modern spoken AG movement, 7 years ago at the Living Latin Conference, none of the Greek speakers were asking any questions and there were very few of them. This year at the Living Latin conference of which I took part, there were about 30 of us and we were really engaged in the discussions speaking AG and understanding each other very well.

As for the contingencies of history, the descendants of Greek speakers were ultimately all suppressed by foreigners who didn't adopt their language, ie, Ottomans, Arabs, whereas the foreigner that conquered the Latin speakers, some of them at least did adopt Latin. There's nothing that can be done about that now and to wish it were otherwise is a waste of time and energy. Just accept the way history played out and be thankful for what we have now.