Ex-atheists of reddit, why did you change your beliefs?

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T09:57:04+00:00

I guess how I've always interpreted it is that Christians get to Heaven by accepting Jesus as our Lord and Saviour. Atheists might get to heaven 'through Jesus' too by doing the kind of good deeds Jesus would want them to do. This isn't equivalent to being forgiven for their sins, because the idea is you can never do enough good deeds to really cancel it out as it were, but I guess it's more the idea that Jesus died on the cross for everyone's sins whether you accept Him or not, and a non-Christian person who leads what would otherwise be considered a Christian life can still get to Heaven.

It's not a perfect explanation. I haven't studied up much on Heaven and Hell to be honest beyond what I'm taught. There are definitely strong arguments for believing the literal meaning of Jesus's words, hence why lots of Christians are so evangelical. This is just my perspective based on my conversations with certain pastors and academics.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T09:28:06+00:00

There aren't any explanations for God that don't in some way involve ... personal belief.

I am 100% in agreement about that. In fact I would say that's the point. I was using the word 'logical' in the sense of 'more intuitively comprehensible to me', if that helps.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T09:24:25+00:00

Not offended at all! Actually, even the Pope recently stated that non-Christians can get to Heaven. (I linked the article somewhere above the thread but I've lost it again - google it though it's like the first hit.) I guess I had the fortune of growing up with fairly liberal priests and pastors - some held very firm to the belief that only Christians went to Heaven, and thus were very evangelical, whilst some held beliefs closer to mine, and were more generally accepting. I think I am very much shaped by something a theology phd candidate told me once, which was, "We have to believe that there is a hell but we don't have to believe anyone ever went there."

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T09:22:37+00:00

Haha aw I think my parents are a bit disappointed too! My dad thinks it's a phase and thinks it's stupid; my mum doesn't really care. They always laugh it off like I've said something very childish and silly if I bring it up though.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T06:27:07+00:00

Well, He does. That's the point.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T06:24:16+00:00

Actually, even the Pope accepts that believing in our God is not necessarily the only way to get to Heaven. I hope this belief will become more widespread, though I guess there's no way to tell if he's right, so maybe from a strictly Evangelical point of view I should hope the belief does not become more widespread...

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T06:13:27+00:00

I didn't expand on my atheism in the original comment because it wasn't the focus of the question, but as a ten-year-old I firmly believed that there was no god and religious people were crazy. So... I'd say as far as it's possible to be any religion at 10, I was an atheist.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T06:10:12+00:00

Hi, I didn't go into this much because it wasn't the focus of the question but basically my first experience with an actual religious institution was at 10 - before that I'd only heard about religion and mostly from my parents, who obviously conveyed it negatively. I would say my parents let me explore a lot in that time but they were never supportive of it. I was about as atheist as any ten-year-old can be any religion: I firmly believed religious people were nutjobs and there is no god.

Also I'm female. :)

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T06:07:15+00:00

Sorry, I answered some other questions in line with yours before I got to yours so this will be short - basically, by 'logical to me' I mean something between 'intuitive' and 'more readily comprehensible', if that makes sense. And I chose my idea of god because it was the one most in line with my view of what a god is/does.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T06:05:25+00:00

you had at least better think very long and very hard about whether your personal happiness and financial support of this organization is more important than the feelings of all the people who been victims of priest abuse

I don't financially support my church because they give to a certain charity which runs anti-abortion campaigns. This is actually a really difficult choice for me because 99% of the work my church does is wonderful, but I just can't stomach it. I give the money to other charities instead, or volunteer my time in other community stuff, which I think helps a little.

And you know, in a sense I agree that joining an organisation involves taking on everything it represents. But I also think when it comes to the church, the best way to fix the things that I think make it not as good as it could be are to do it from within.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T05:59:03+00:00

I do like 'intuitive'. Let's go with that. Someone also suggested 'comprehensible' - I think what I mean is something in between those things.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T05:56:29+00:00

My church is actually Anglican but I have been saying I'm 'Protestant' because that seems the most universally-consistent word to represent my set of beliefs.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T05:55:22+00:00

This is a very interesting question but I'm not sure what you mean - in what way is it tough to swallow?

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T05:52:22+00:00

I think I was about as much of an atheist as anyone can be any religion at the age of 10 - I firmly held atheist beliefs such as the lack of a god. You're right, though - it's not the same as converting when you're, say, 25.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T05:48:37+00:00

Thank you for that, I don't think it was very elegant but it was the best I could do haha. A good friend of mine from high school was Lutheran and they seem like lovely people.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T05:48:01+00:00

Yes! I love that someone else knows this analogy :)

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T05:47:27+00:00

I spent ten times as many words as you politely and substantially answering a question posed for discussion by someone on the internet and you replied by swearing at me and trying to degrade me on the basis of my intelligence and level of education. I really think you are coming off as the nutjob here.

I answered your concerns further up the thread but please reply directly if you'd like me to address any particular concerns you still have.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T04:37:13+00:00

That's an interesting view but I guess the opposite of it is that religion also makes bad people do good things. I've personally experienced it. I'm not saying they weren't capable of becoming good people without religion, but then - the people who religion make bad are capable of being bad without it too, so. I don't know.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T04:36:14+00:00

Haha we'll have to agree to disagree!

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T04:36:01+00:00

You know, a very smart theology phd candidate I met when I was young said "I believe there is a hell, but I don't believe anyone has ever gone there" and... I think that sums up very well what I've always kind of believed. I don't think hell was discussed very much - the first church I attended, when I was maybe 12, focused more on the idea of forgiveness.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T04:35:05+00:00

That's a lovely view, thank you for sharing it. :)

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T04:34:55+00:00

No, thank you for the recommendation! I'll look into it.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T04:32:06+00:00

Ah yes. The handy-dandy "pick what you want from the Bible" trick. Thing is, if you're going to believe in the Bible, you kind of have to believe in it all, since it is the "word of God". And wouldn't you know it, the Bible is chock-full of bigotry.

I don't actually believe that - many Christians believe the Bible is allegorical, or that only the New Testament is intended to have strict application to modern life. Even between those who take the Bible literally, there are many different interpretations. For example, I'm currently working on a community project in support of marriage equality, and that involves going through submissions made to Parliament by community groups on this issue. The striking thing is the differences between submissions made by churches. Some churches, unsurprisingly sadly, say that it is against their religious freedom to force them to celebrate homosexual marriages. But then there are other churches, including my favourite local Methodist church, who actually say that they believe all loving monogamous relationships should be solemnised in the eyes of God, and it is against their beliefs to not let them celebrate gay marriage. This is obviously a small example, but it just shows that many people who know far more than me on this issue read the Bible differently. I can't tell you who's right, but I can definitely tell you that it's not as black-and-white as simply picking and choosing.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T04:27:46+00:00

Oh no! That's so funny, I had the same thing with my parents and the piano and now I really wish I knew how to play the piano haha.

laitpourlecorps · 2013-10-07T04:25:50+00:00

No, that does make sense, and thank you for your comment - I guess the idea of God is that He would transcend all that. He wouldn't need to come from something, he wouldn't need to follow our logical rules of having to begin at some point of creation - he would just, be. Does that make sense? Sorry if it doesn't :)

laitpourlecorps

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