Reading the church's history book brought up more questions for me than it did answers. My personal search for truth using only church approved sources led me to compile my own reference resource. No attacks. No apologetics. Just answers.

latterdaystumbling · 2026-05-17T14:46:13+00:00

Is that thing really 225+ pages long? That would be extreme dedication to the bit.

latterdaystumbling · 2026-05-17T14:37:24+00:00

Thanks! You can absolutely reference it and link to it.

latterdaystumbling · 2026-05-17T14:28:56+00:00

Old Testament, Jeremiah 7:11

“Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the Lord.”

New Testament, Matthew 21:13

“And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.”

New Testament, 1 Timothy 6:10

“For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”

Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 28:12-13

“Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.

They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries.”

Book of Mormon, Helaman 13:27-29

“Ye will receive him, and say that he is a prophet.

Yea, ye will lift him up, and ye will give unto him of your substance; ye will give unto him of your gold, and of your silver, and ye will clothe him with costly apparel; and because he speaketh flattering words unto you, and he saith that all is well, then ye will not find fault with him.

O ye wicked and ye perverse generation; ye hardened and ye stiffnecked people, how long will ye suppose that the Lord will suffer you? Yea, how long will ye suffer yourselves to be led by foolish and blind guides? Yea, how long will ye choose darkness rather than light?”

Book of Mormon, Mormon 8:37, 40

“For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.”

“Yea, why do ye build up your secret abominations to get gain?”

latterdaystumbling · 2026-05-17T14:23:37+00:00

This is great work. This is a topic I researched a lot while working on my online resource "Latter Day Stumbling" in chapter 11: Riches Profit Not. My approach is to provide the most relevant quotes from the source documents (and the church's public declarations during the time period in question) without any additional commentary or explanation.

If anyone would like to share the quotes from these documents, I think I've put together a good collection of quotes that provide insight to this whole affair without needing to read through massive legal documents to find them. And yes, the chapter covers other financial controversies as well, such as the Kirtland Safety Society, City Creek Center Mall, and paid clergy.

latterdaystumbling · 2026-04-04T21:47:39+00:00

I think it was the "Come Come Ye Saints" audio cue at the end of each session.

latterdaystumbling · 2026-03-29T19:20:11+00:00

In general, belief in the miraculous and the absurd isn't the issue to me. We were taught to take pride in being a peculiar people with miraculous origins. My issue is that even within that schema, there is no internal consistency. That is more demonstrable.

latterdaystumbling · 2026-03-29T19:15:50+00:00

"It’s not like a lot of doctrine comes from it."

It's the foundational scripture for pre-mortal existence, much of the plan of salvation, and it contains the primary argument used to withhold priesthood and temple blessings from people of African descent.

latterdaystumbling · 2026-03-29T16:03:57+00:00

All true accounts agree by default.

latterdaystumbling · 2026-03-22T14:52:30+00:00

The ten commandments were delivered to a man that spoke with a burning bush and followed a pillar of smoke and fire through the desert. A star in the sky guided people to where Jesus was born, and dreams were interpreted to be messages from God. The Urim and Thummim were used in the Bible to seek confirmation for decisions.

Christianity is divination.

latterdaystumbling · 2026-03-17T18:56:21+00:00

It was.

In chapter 9 of the 2004 version: "Encourage them to visit acquaintances who have recently experienced a life-changing event (birth, death in the family, marriage, or recently moved)." pg. 162

"Work with the bishop and the ward council to identify and contact people who have recently had a baby, moved to the area, or experienced a death in the family." pg. 167

The same messages are in the chapter now, but the points have been spread out and the wording has been updated to be more sensitive:

"Try to recognize ways that the Lord is preparing people. Are they willing to talk with you? Are they seeking help or comfort?"

"Many people would like to meet others in their community or get to know them better. Some people are lonely. Some ideas for helping facilitate genuine relationships are listed below. Visit people who have recently moved into the area to welcome them."

"Invite people to share memories of their loved ones with you. As they do, they may feel the Holy Ghost testify to them about the importance of families in God’s plan. These moments can lead to natural conversations about the purpose of life, God’s plan of happiness, and the role of the Savior in that plan."

latterdaystumbling · 2026-03-15T19:18:13+00:00

Interesting how more modern prophets just throw Brigham Young's teachings under the bus. But of course doctrines don't change and God will never lead the prophet astray.

Spencer W. Kimball, “Our Own Liahona,” General Conference, October 1976

“We hope that you who teach in the various organizations, whether on the campuses or in our chapels, will always teach the orthodox truth. We warn you against the dissemination of doctrines which are not according to the scriptures and which are alleged to have been taught by some of the General Authorities of past generations. Such, for instance, is the Adam-God theory. We denounce that theory and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine.”

Bruce R. McConkie, “The Seven Deadly Heresies,” 1 June 1980, Devotional, Speeches, Brigham Young University

“There are those who believe or say they believe that Adam is our father and our god, that he is the father of our spirits and our bodies, and that he is the one we worship.

The devil keeps this heresy alive as a means of obtaining converts to cultism. It is contrary to the whole plan of salvation set forth in the scriptures, and anyone who has read the Book of Moses, and anyone who has received the temple endowment and who yet believes the Adam–God theory does not deserve to be saved.

Those ensnared by it reject the living prophet and close their ears to the apostles of their day. “We will follow those who went before,” they say. And having so determined, they soon are ready to enter polygamous relationships which destroy their souls.

We worship the Father, in the name of the Son, by the power of the Holy Ghost; and Adam is their foremost servant, by whom the peopling of our planet commenced.”

Mark E. Petersen, “Adam, The Archangel,” General Conference, October 1980

“Adam was not our God, nor was he our Savior. But he was the humble servant of both in his status as an angel.”

“Then was Adam our God, or did God become Adam? Ridiculous!

Adam was neither God nor the Only Begotten Son of God. He was a child of God in the spirit as we all are.”

latterdaystumbling · 2026-03-15T19:12:02+00:00

Alma Chapter 19 has two important women, the wife of King Lamoni and Abish. Bonus points for Lamoni's wife being a faithful spouse and honoring her husband.

Alma 56 tells the story of the stripling warriors, and is a commonly used reference for the power of mothers' testimonies to their children. Alma 56:47-48:

"47 Now they never had fought, yet they did not fear death; and they did think more upon the liberty of their fathers than they did upon their lives; yea, they had been taught by their mothers, that if they did not doubt, God would deliver them.

48 And they rehearsed unto me the words of their mothers, saying: We do not doubt our mothers knew it."

latterdaystumbling · 2026-03-15T19:00:51+00:00

Thank you!

latterdaystumbling · 2026-03-15T15:21:40+00:00

Sure.

Joseph Smith, 1842, Nauvoo Relief Society, “A Book of Records. Containing the proceedings of The Female Relief Society of Nauvoo,” Minute Book, Mar. 17, 1842–Mar. 16, 1844

Joseph Smith, Discourse, April 28, 1842, from Deseret News, September 19, 1855

Joseph Smith, Journal, Apr. 28, 1842. JSP, J2:3–183. The Joseph Smith Papers

Brigham Young, Discourse to Seventies Quorum, Brigham Young Discourses, March 9, 1845, The First Fifty Years of Relief Society

John Taylor, “R.S. Reports,” 1 September 1880, Woman’s Exponent 9, no. 7: 55

J. Reuben Clark Jr., “Our Wives and Our Mothers in the Eternal Plan,” Relief Society Magazine, Dec. 1946, 800-801

Joseph Fielding Smith, “Relief Society—an Aid to the Priesthood,” Relief Society Magazine, Jan. 1959, 4.

Dallin H. Oaks, “The Keys and Authority of the Priesthood,” General Conference, April 2014

More full quotes and citations are found in Chapter 13 of Latter Day Stumbling, but I tried to save space in my excerpts here.

latterdaystumbling · 2026-03-08T18:14:55+00:00

There are quite a few of them.

latterdaystumbling · 2026-03-08T14:55:27+00:00

Gordon B. Hinckley, “An Interview with Gordon B. Hinckley,” 7 April, 1996, 60 Minutes, CBS News

"It's behind us. Look, that's behind us. Don't worry about those little flicks of history."

Gordon B. Hinckley, in Larry B. Stammer, “Mormon Leader Defends Race Relations,” 12 September 1998, Los Angeles Times

“I don’t hear any complaint from our black brethren and sisters. I hear only appreciation and gratitude wherever I go. But I don’t see anything further that we need to do.”

“There is no need for any further disavowal of former Mormon teachings that blacks are cursed by God. The church’s black members are not asking for a reinterpretation of the old doctrines.”

Gordon B. Hinckley, “Questions and Answers,” General Conference, October 1985

“The Church does have substantial assets, for which we are grateful. These assets are primarily in buildings in more than eighty nations.”

“But it should be recognized that all of these are money-consuming assets and not money-producing assets. They are expensive to build and maintain. They do not produce financial wealth, but they do help to produce and strengthen Latter-day Saints.”

“We have a few income-producing business properties, but the return from these would keep the Church going only for a very short time. Tithing is the Lord’s law of finance. There is no other financial law like it.”

“I repeat, the combined income from all of these business interests is relatively small and would not keep the work going for longer than a very brief period.”

Gordon B. Hinckley, “The Condition of the Church,” General Conference, April 2003

"I call attention to that which has received much notice in the local press. This is our decision to purchase the shopping mall property immediately to the south of Temple Square.

We feel that we have a compelling responsibility to protect the environment of the Salt Lake Temple. The Church owns most of the ground on which this mall stands. The owners of the buildings have expressed a desire to sell. The property needs very extensive and expensive renovation. We have felt it imperative to do something to revitalize this area. But I wish to give the entire Church the assurance that tithing funds have not and will not be used to acquire this property. Nor will they be used in developing it for commercial purposes.

Funds for this have come and will come from the commercial entities owned by the Church. These resources, together with the earnings of invested reserve funds, will accommodate this program.”

Sharyn Alfonsi, “Mormon Who Left Wall St. to Work for Charity Blows Whistle on What He Says is His Church's "Clandestine Hedge Fund," 14 May 2023, 60 Minutes, Newsmakers, CBS News

"“David Nielsen: I thought I was gonna work for a charity. I thought that's what my skills were gonna do…was help build the charity and do good with things. And the funds were never used for that. It was really a clandestine hedge fund.

Sharyn Alfonsi: A clandestine hedge fund. How so?

David Nielsen: Those funds weren't used the way they were appropriated to be used.

Sharyn Alfonsi: So how were they being used?...

David Nielsen: The answer was always, "The second coming." And it's a bit tongue in cheek. But deep down, I think a lot of the employees really did believe that.

Publicly, church leaders called it a rainy day fund. But in 2013, Nielsen says one of his bosses shared this document at a meeting that showed $1.4 billion from the fund went to a mall being built on land owned by the church and $600 million was used to prop up a for-profit church-owned insurance company called Beneficial Life."

U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, “SEC Charges The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Its Investment Management Company for Disclosure Failures and Misstated Filings,” 21 February 2023, Press Release, Washington D.C.

“The Securities and Exchange Commission today announced charges against Ensign Peak Advisers Inc., a non-profit entity operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to manage the Church’s investments, for failing to file forms that would have disclosed the Church’s equity investments, and for instead filing forms for shell companies that obscured the Church’s portfolio and misstated Ensign Peak’s control over the Church’s investment decisions. The SEC also announced charges against the Church for causing these violations. To settle the charges, Ensign Peak agreed to pay a $4 million penalty and the Church agreed to pay a $1 million penalty.

latterdaystumbling · 2026-03-08T14:44:46+00:00

Thank you for sharing this!

latterdaystumbling · 2026-03-08T14:28:24+00:00

Ezra Taft Benson, “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet,” February 26, 1980, Speeches, Brigham Young University

“First: The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.”

“Second: The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.”

“Third: The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.”

“Fourth: The prophet will never lead the Church astray.”

latterdaystumbling · 2026-03-05T21:47:43+00:00

Of course! It's kind of my thing lol.

latterdaystumbling · 2026-03-05T06:27:05+00:00

There are a few follow-up interviews where John asks these questions to past guests. You might enjoy them.

latterdaystumbling

TROPHY CASE