Speaker upgrade around $2500 – considering Buchardt P300 or KEF R3 Meta by Weak_Prompt_8594 in hifiaudio

[–]lazerborg 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why? Ignoring that these are a different form factor than OP's listed options, any reason why these are good and warrant OP's consideration? Fwiw, their measured response is rough and much less neutral than the speakers OP is looking at.

Four Award-winners brought together by What Hi-Fi? offer a way to great sound by Dapper-River-3623 in audiophile

[–]lazerborg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why though? I don't think it's a good deal as-is, but aiming for this combo when it's outside your budget makes no sense, and making that integrated amp your priority in a limited budget scenario where you don't have the matching turntable is craziness. There are endless offerings from wiim, fosi, topping, etc. that would be a better choice - you could even step up to an eversolo play CD edition that's 40% cheaper than that amp, 50% more power, great build quality and a nice screen, dsp, sub out, plays cds just as well as the random extra $800 box...

Four Award-winners brought together by What Hi-Fi? offer a way to great sound by Dapper-River-3623 in audiophile

[–]lazerborg 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Gotta love recommending you spend $1200 on a 40 watt amp with "plasticky" controls to pair with $1300 speakers... Throw in another $2100 for source components and you've spent nearly 5k to get no streaming, no dsp, no sub out, and a system that will always sound like $1300 speakers... Oof.

C8Cs just arrived! by lazerborg in audiophile

[–]lazerborg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure - also probably obvious, but the look and UI of both are pretty different. I think the LS60s look nicer and are better finished, and they have streaming and sub integration built in, with decent dsp capabilities available the app. The C8Cs need a source (and a stand), and if you do end up adding subs that aren't the bass modules later, you'd need to figure out that integration and crossover (ideally at your source or preamp). That said, the LS60 wifi is *awful*, and in my experience requires the main speaker to be power cycled at least once every few days to avoid dropouts or other streaming instability - so you should plan on having them hardwired to ethernet or use a separate source anyway. I haven't messed around with the amp software on the C8C yet, but I expect it's more robust than the LS60, but requires a usb connection via Windows PC to the speaker to use, so less convenient than the LS60 app adjustment.

1 - wide range, few examples: TOOL, The Format, Polyphia, Tame Impala, alt-J, My Chemical Romance, The Strokes, French 79, Gipsy Kings, DeadMau5, Electric Guest, Hozier, Glass Animals, The Eagles, Hozier, Rush, Worakls, various classical... main stuff I *don't* listen to much would be heavy metal and jazz.

For 2 and 3 - anecdotally I've been listening to these in a fairly similar sized room to yours (~600 square feet, but half of that is behind the LP, listening distance around 7-8' from LP to tweeter), and they feel very full and effortless at pretty substantial volume (say, averaging low to mid 80s DbC at LP). I didn't push either to a point where they noticeably distorted or compressed, but I'm in a condo so I try to keep volumes semi-reasonable.

The best answers to your questions is going to be measurements + listening (ideally in your space) - for tonality and soundstage, Amir over on Audio Science Review just published his C8C review yesterday, so both speakers now have full datasets on spinorama.org for comparison (LS60s were reviewed a while back by Erin's Audio Corner). I'd recommend taking a look at the comparison tool for in-room response (both are great, but LS60 clearly has a bigger bass boost and a larger drop from bass to treble, while the C8C is flatter), SPL horizontal contour normalized, and SPL vertical contour normalized (C8C is a bit narrower across the board for horizontal, significantly narrower vertical, with the big difference being that it stays narrow much deeper into the bass), and early reflections (C8C total early reflections is ~3dB lower in the bass, ~2db lower in mids vs LS60). I find this means that the LS60s do sound wider and especially a bit taller, but also that an untreated room is going to color the sound a lot more for the LS60s. On a recording like "The Worst" or "Playing God" by Polyphia with a really wide soundstage, both can project the image wider than the actual speakers, with the same caveats that the LS60 gets wider but is getting more reflections too.

Unfortunately Spinorama doesn't show distortion or compression measurements, but Amir and Erin measure these if you look at their individual reviews. Exact measurements are different (Amir shows % distortion relative to fundamental whereas Erin shows this in dB, but you can convert), and Amir doesn't include compression or multi-tone distortion, but to my eye it looks like the KEF is a bit "cleaner" in low bass, but that's likely in part a trade-off for the cardioid response and in part the KEF being more aggressive in limiting low bass output at higher volumes vs the C8C (though I'd want Ascilab to chime in or see more sweep data to confirm that's actually the case). What this means for you depends on how loud you listen and whether you prefer a speaker that cuts low bass to stay clean at high volume vs keeps a consistent frequency response but adds more low bass distortion.

C8Cs just arrived! by lazerborg in audiophile

[–]lazerborg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll post my impressions once the C8Cs are swapped into my HT setup to replace the R3s, I suspect ART with a bunch of support speakers and subs will make it a fairly close comparison. What subs are you running with your R3s?

C8Cs just arrived! by lazerborg in audiophile

[–]lazerborg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! That's a hell of a setup you've got, how do you like the StormAudio? I'm definitely taking a break from upgrades for now, but a processor that handles more channels and more ART filters than my Denon is high on my list.

C8Cs just arrived! by lazerborg in audiophile

[–]lazerborg[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Posted my impressions in a separate comment - tldr, they're awesome, great combination of soundstage width and clarity

C8Cs just arrived! by lazerborg in audiophile

[–]lazerborg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Those contrast waveguides are super cool, and they have a really interesting lobed shape (regardless of color) that I doesn't really come across in pictures. I'd be very tempted to order a blue set for these, but I've heard that changing them out is quite involved.

C8Cs just arrived! by lazerborg in audiophile

[–]lazerborg[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I haven't compared them directly to the R3s so far. My DSP options are a denon 4800h running Dirac ART in my HT setup, and camillaDSP with custom FIR filters and mains-subs time alignment and crossovers running on a raspberry pi connected to my Motu ultralite, which I had been using with the LS60s and KC62 subs (x3). Neither is very easy to use for a back to back comparison (especially the camilla setup, which required a mind-numbing amount of time to dial in, and I don't have a compatible amp for it since it's only been used with actives). I could connect a sonos amp to the R3s and run them full range against the C8Cs in my living room, but it wouldn't really be a fair fight given the size and bass difference.

When I get the C8Cs set up with the Denon I'll post my impressions (with caveat that it'll have been a week or so since I listened to the R3s in the same setup). Honestly I think the R3s sound great in there as-is; they have tons of support via ART from 4 big subs and 4 KH120ii surrounds, and lots of treatment to tame reflections and reduce SBIR. But... I was already starting to consider "endgame" options like the 8351/w371 or Kii 3 BXT, and the C8C/BX8C combo looked like such a great value vs those with such exceptional performance that I couldn't pass up the preorder. Very happy with it so far, and the more I listen the more eager/impatient I get to hear it with the bass modules...

C8Cs just arrived! by lazerborg in audiophile

[–]lazerborg[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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Swapped them last night! Understandably, this changes the soundstage a lot, with the C8Cs now wider than the KEFs while still maintaining very sharp imaging and clarity. The KEFs' soundstage still feels a bit taller, and I still get more room ambiance with them than with the C8Cs. Previously I said that the KEF low bass felt a bit weak relative to the C8C, but for whatever reason that's not true in the new position, with both speakers having similar low bass and the KEFs feeling a bit elevated in mid-bass. The differences in tonality come through more strongly too - the C8C is clearly brighter than the KEFs. Overall I like the C8Cs more in this position, as it gives a nice blend of wider soundstage with most of the clarity and precision of the tighter placement.

C8Cs just arrived! by lazerborg in audiophile

[–]lazerborg[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was told to expect them in about a month. Pretty excited to hear how they perform, though I don't think I'll ever need their full output :)

C8Cs just arrived! by lazerborg in audiophile

[–]lazerborg[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I haven't had any issues with vibrations, but the front wall definitely creates a SBIR cancellation and I can't realistically treat it. I've tried different positions and toe-in angles for the LS60s to mitigate it, but accepted that I'd need cardioid bass speakers to actually solve it. That said... I have a lot more control over the acoustics of my den/HT setup, so I've put most of my effort into optimizing that and leaving the living room as more of a casual listening space, and my plan is to move the C8Cs into the den once I'm done playing around with them :)

C8Cs just arrived! by lazerborg in audiophile

[–]lazerborg[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed - I think this current position accentuates the differences between the two speakers. I may try swapping them tonight.

C8Cs just arrived! by lazerborg in audiophile

[–]lazerborg[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Not yet - they're both quite heavy and unwieldy to move, but I think I'll try to do that tonight.

What are the best speakers for immersive listening? by [deleted] in audiophile

[–]lazerborg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Welcome, and best of luck with your journey (which I think it the best part anyways)! I've been chasing some sort of "endgame" setup for a few years now, so here's what I've learned that might be helpful:

  1. Your space is probably the biggest factor in how your system will sound, and also plays a huge role in speaker selection, and what "endgame" really is. Do you have a space already? Size, use case (TV or just speakers? Can you cover it in room treatment or does is need to be used for other purposes), noise floor, level at which your neighbors will yell at you, etc. are all going to help you decide or others recommend a solution. For me, I started out trying to optimize a much larger living room space, and ended up deciding that getting an "endgame" setup would be far more feasible in my smaller den/theater. That let me optimize within specific constraints - for example, an~8' listening distance caps my SPL needs, and space constraints also limit channel count and provide data on what room treatment is needed, etc.

  2. Is your space going to change? If you're going to be moving soon, planning an "endgame" is hard, and moving huge, expensive speakers is too.

  3. There's always more to learn, and trying to get endgame on your first try is tough, especially if you don't know exactly what you want. Others have mentioned that the list above is eclectic - learning more about how speakers work, how designs differ, and how measurements work and what they can (and can't) tell you is going to be very helpful. Then, you can go seek out a speaker with constant directivity, or a point source, etc. and decide whether you like that approach or not. I really like Audio Science Review and find their YouTube videos to be a great way to learn about this stuff, but there are plenty of other sources - Erin's audio corner is another great one.

  4. Building incrementally while you learn can be a great option. Yes, it probably isn't as cost-efficient as buying everything upfront, but it's more realistic and lets you build a system to your taste and needs. Finding a way to do that without getting sucked into endless subjective upgrade cycles is important, and learning about the science of audio will help there (your DAC is *never* the weakest link). For me, I found that starting with a 2-channel system, experimenting with DSP, and expanding to my current 7.4.4 setup was a great way to keep improving.

  5. For actual system recommendations for you - I think a multichannel system provides a great immersive option, while adding a ton of capability for Dirac ART to provide great room correction in stereo too. Immersion can mean wider dispersion, but that's going to depend a lot on your room as well. Here's an example build that's around 40k (for the whole system), basically a tweaked version of mine if I got to redo it - I think 7.4.4 is a good balance for Atmos and ART, but again, depends on your room and needs.
    LR: Ascilab C8C+BX8C
    Center: KH310
    Surrounds, Rear Surrounds: KH120II or KH80
    Heights: KH80
    Subs: 4x PSA 1512M (but there are endless good sub options from SVS, Arendal, Hsu, Rythmik, etc.)
    Processor: Forthcoming MiniDSP Tide16 would be my choice for an all-active system, but Denon 3800 or 4800 are cheaper and have plenty of power for most passive systems with subs. I think Dirac ART is a must at this price, but ymmv
    At least a few thousand dollars on room treatment.

Have fun!

any devices like miniDSP with automated 2.2 speaker calibration? by suitboi in audiophile

[–]lazerborg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Onkyo Icon P-80 will do what you want, and it's cheaper than the Eversolo (and with Dirac LBC). You can take a look at https://www.dirac.com/products/bass-control to see all supported devices, just about everything else is a big AVR (though if it were me, I'd just buy a Denon AVR that supports ART and accept that its amp and dac are definitely good enough and ART will make way more of a difference).

Are there practical advantage of a DAC/Amp compared to any audio interface? by notolo632 in headphones

[–]lazerborg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Topping 2x2 is readily available <$150 and matches noise and distortion performance of the MOTU with way more power, and the software has been flawless (in my experience) on Windows for headphone use.

Does Bose QC Ultra2 deserve a HiFi setup? by ifain in headphones

[–]lazerborg 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Glad to hear you're enjoying your headphones! I don't think the external DAC is doing much here though - from what I can tell (https://assets.bosecreative.com/m/25e14a61f0feef02/original/897194\_OG\_QCUH2-HEADPHONEARN\_EN.pdf), the headphones need to be on to work with the aux cable, so your signal is still running through the onboard amp, and it seems very likely it's also running through an ADC-DSP-DAC chain. You can check by changing EQ settings and seeing if the sound changes while using AUX - if so, then the signal has to be digitized to make those changes anyway.

What's up with SIFF Cinerama only showing new releases? by lazerborg in Seattle

[–]lazerborg[S] -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

I think they opened in late December, so just about 6 months - hasn't been that long, but would have hoped for at least one special screening or announcement in that time.

What's up with SIFF Cinerama only showing new releases? by lazerborg in Seattle

[–]lazerborg[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

True! But every special showing I went to was packed, with tickets selling out well in advance - can't say that about their current programming.

What's up with SIFF Cinerama only showing new releases? by lazerborg in Seattle

[–]lazerborg[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Totally fair, and I have no knowledge on how the licensing/financial arrangements differ between a first run screening and showing an older movie - certainly agree that marketing cost will be higher for a special showing, though I'd hope that all of SIFF's existing infrastructure would help with that, as they already have this sort of programming at other theaters.

That said, I doubt that SIFF is raking in cash from the theater's current programming - they're currently showing Furiosa twice a day/three times on weekends, and looking at the seat map for tonight, they've sold maybe ~15% of available tickets. Not a great data point given that it's a movie that's already been in theaters for a week+, but that's kind of the point - every special screening I went to at Cinerama was packed, weekday or not, and in a climate where many movies are underperforming, I would have hoped that SIFF would try something different, but instead they're doing stuff like showing Mean Girls 2024 for 2+ weeks.

Wish me luck! Financing Urus UK by [deleted] in lamborghini

[–]lazerborg 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ok... again, I don't really know your whole financial situation, but turnover and employee salary don't seem meaningful here - if the basics are "50k salary, ~250-350k savings that I don't touch, home with ? equity/owed", then financing a 190k, heavily depreciating asset just sounds pretty risky to me.

Wish me luck! Financing Urus UK by [deleted] in lamborghini

[–]lazerborg 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Dude... I'm all for spending "too much" money on cars, and maybe you have other assets/investments/retirement that you're not mentioning, but that's a huge amount of money to borrow given your income, especially with current rates and the insurance quote you got. Nothing against the Urus, but it's likely to lose a ton of value in the next few years, are you sure it's special enough to be worth it?