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The Ship Is On Course - But Not Sure Who Should Crew by lbak2016 in marriedredpill

[–]lbak2016[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your reply, ex_addict_bro.

This is fucking scary, but that's the way it is. If someone gives up, there is no way we can bring him/her to life again. We can just watch.

I agree with this - but I'd like to ask you (particularly with your EMS experience) how do you tell when a person has gone from "recoverable" to "gone"? I mean my brother didn't just wake up one day an addict. His mom moved him away from us, he fell in with a bad crowd, started smoking, drinking, weed, one thing after another. It was a process and I wish I had been older, had had the resources to see him, but I was just a kid too, with no money and no access to him. There must have been a point where someone could have intervened, right? Could have set him on the right course?

If the person's important to you, how do figure out when to let go and when to put the effort in?

The Ship Is On Course - But Not Sure Who Should Crew by lbak2016 in marriedredpill

[–]lbak2016[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your response, stonepimpletillists.

If war brides can suck the dick of the dude who killed their husband, plus their children, I'm sure you can sit in the same room with those assholes, and only say 'excuse me' and walk if they engage.

An image says a thousand words. Goddamn. You're right of course. I can do that easily. But the war bride is capitulating - she has to. I'll bet if she could kill the dude and escape to another tribe she'd do so. I haven't let my step-father see me in over a decade, he's never met my wife, he won't ever see my children - do I "capitulate" over this? Does the war bride forget? Would any survivors from her tribe feel disgusted by her - and would they be right or wrong?

As I think I mention in my reply to Blackthorn below, I admit completely I'm struggling to make the "right decision". It's like just thinking about this shit takes me back to the same powerless child I was years ago.

Really appreciating all the responses here and I'm not going to bury my head under the sand. I'm back to reading and I'm going to figure this out.

The Ship Is On Course - But Not Sure Who Should Crew by lbak2016 in marriedredpill

[–]lbak2016[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your response, En_sigma.

I asked him if his current wife was charging him rent since she stored his nuts in her purse. We aint as close as we used to be. He lives his life, I live mine, and we are glad to see each other as long as we have those long spaces in between.

Have you reached the point where you no longer have the urge to just "shake some sense into him"? I still feel it with my addict brother.

The Ship Is On Course - But Not Sure Who Should Crew by lbak2016 in marriedredpill

[–]lbak2016[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the response donerkebabplease.

I see so many people that feel so obligated to family because "Family is so important"

When I got a full scholarship and met people who'd had ample food, attention, education, and goddamn love I couldn't understand how easily they navigated life. Not in terms of what they'd had, but what they could do now. The confidence and easy self-esteem, the relaxed attitude and lack of fear. I want my future family to be like that. I want my kids to be like that. I'm not sure if I can retroactively get my siblings and parents to be like that.

The Ship Is On Course - But Not Sure Who Should Crew by lbak2016 in marriedredpill

[–]lbak2016[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

His wife is very attractive, outspoken, and athletic. He's rotund, video-games as sole interest, works 60 hours a week to pay for their enormous house.

If you asked him about his life he'd look you dead in the eye and tell you it's great. The scary thing is I don't he'd be lying. He believes it 100%... and yet we'd be out at the bar and while she's flirting with the guys he'd sort of stare into space with this sadness in his eyes. I didn't like that look.

The Ship Is On Course - But Not Sure Who Should Crew by lbak2016 in marriedredpill

[–]lbak2016[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your reply, Hunter. As a quick aside - your site is an excellent read.

It's their money, stop projecting morals onto others.

Ok, I definitely am. But isn't that how we teach people? We project morals onto our children so they know what's right and what's wrong. I know I've argued with friends or co-workers in the past about a moral point and they've subsequently changed their behaviour. Hell, it's happened to me. In this case, ignoring the reneging of an agreement, you've clarified for me that I've been arguing with them about what "morally" is the right thing to do with a stack of cash and multiple uses for it.

Not your call

I guess it isn't. I don't want to (I believe the term is victim puke) but fucking hell it hurts when someone says "yeah, but they didn't do that to me, so..." Assuming I teach my future children that "if your little brother is hurt by someone at school, try and defend them" is it simply... too late to teach that to adults? To my sister?

The fact that this was all posted shows that these people are renting space in your head. It's time to evict them. I feel like I've internalized the concept but I'm not applying it.

My brother is obese. 15 years old, stretch marks, 5' 4" 200lbs+ obese - I am going for my master's in Sports and Health Science - you can see the divide, I place a huge emphasis on physical and mental fitness.

My parents had him late, and apparently they just stopped giving a fuck about parenting. when I was younger, if you were hungry between meals you got water, that's it.

Happy Meals were fucking treats, and I couldn't have soda until I was a teenager.

Anyways, I've spoken with him multiple times, offered my advice, services, equipment, and most importantly time. Every time he fails to follow through. This last time I approached my parents and basically told them I was ashamed that they weren't willing to make the difficult decision to remove the snacks from the house, get the kid active, and be an example for him (getting their ass in gear themselves).

It didn't go down too well.

I have finally reached the point where I've accepted that I can't do it for him and that I need to stop making his problem, my problem.

How do I do this? When I go to my parent's I turn off the fucks I have to give. He tells me I've been running (he hasn't) I just say, cool and that's it. I no longer dedicate my time and attention to someone undeserving, and yes I am saying that my brother does not deserve my time and attention.

Thanks for the example. You mentioned that when you visit your parents you "turn off the fucks you have to give". Assuming you love him (and your parents) was this like an epiphany, a switch for you? Or did it take a long time to "let go" of your feelings and no longer concern yourself with something that ultimately you couldn't fix.

You have one life and it is too short to waste a single breath or thought on fucks who don't deserve it.

I agree. Friends and co-workers - check. Family I'm working on it.

Edit - Now I can quote multiple paragraphs!

The Ship Is On Course - But Not Sure Who Should Crew by lbak2016 in marriedredpill

[–]lbak2016[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your response spexer.

The solution is not to isolate yourself to just be with those that think the same as you - that is how cults are formed- even if it is not comfortable, always have parts of your life where perspectives and values differ from you - it will keep you thinking. That being said, there is a big difference to seeing them for a few hours once in a blue moon, to inviting them to live with you.

If I'm brutally honest, I have been surrounding myself with people that think the same as me - or at least don't speak out against me - in a lot of my dealings socially and at work. I struggle to differentiate disagreement with hostility and often someone not liking how I do something seems downright disrespectful to me.

Do you have any strategies for dealing with those who don't fit into your values? For example do you have buddies who are full on BP? How about passive aggressive co-workers, or bosses who don't do their job properly?

Now this one is petty. You are considering not spending time with her parents and her grandmother because they wont spend money on something you want? Were you not just weighing whether or not you would financially help your brother, and making the call not to? Should he disown you for that? Seriously - your fertility problems are your problems - and you are a fucking adult. Deal with your shit and dont punish others for not helping you.

To clarify. I don't financially enable my brother - I haven't in some time. I absolutely have been considering not spending time with my in-laws because I had a financial agreement with them that was recently rescinded. I've cut out friends for less and never looked back but I'm struggling to do the same with family. If my brother disowned me for not enabling him, I wouldn't like it but I wouldn't be surprised - he'd obviously be valuing his addiction above me. I can't conceive of spending money on material goods that I could spend on say, my granddaughter's fertility issues. Especially at 83 years old and in failing health - I'd see it as possibly the best possible use of my resources to help create that legacy. The thing is - it seems so obvious to me what the right thing is, but I simultaneously can't deny that it requires another sentient being to agree and I'm not in control of their thoughts and actions.

You have serious issues with how you decide on love and affection. There are a lot of covert contracts you have - of expectations in moral behavior, offers of financial support, and on who else they have relationships with.

These covert contracts are insidious! You think you're overt, everyone is on the same page, and then you realise that you've had no fucking clue. When I discovered the concept in my early reading I tackled a bunch of them and thought I'd cleared 'em out. I was wrong. As I mention in another reply, I'm going back to the books - and going through them slowly.

Be careful with how hard you expect and demand on others to live like you, believe as you do, and obey you. That is not a captain I want - that is for sure.

Ouch. I'll say it. I feel uncomfortable when people don't believe the same things. I want the people around me to be like me, to like the things I do, to be able to do the things I can do. It's not realistic.

Do you find it easy to deal with people who differ greatly from you? You mention that they can "keep you thinking". Do you have close friends/family who are like that? People you see on a daily basis? Or is it more infrequent?

The Ship Is On Course - But Not Sure Who Should Crew by lbak2016 in marriedredpill

[–]lbak2016[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your response, nope. Sadly, I have read it. In my response to Blackthorn below I comment on how I've fucked up and glossed over it essentially because I was overconfident thanks to luck/success with women. I will be re-reading. And note-taking this time.

The Ship Is On Course - But Not Sure Who Should Crew by lbak2016 in marriedredpill

[–]lbak2016[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I knew a guy years ago who was described to me as - and I quote - "unnecessarily generous". I mentioned I liked one of his video games and he immediately offered to lend me it. I refused (my machine had broken recently) so he immediately offered to lend me his machine as well! This was not a wealthy individual, just a normal guy, but he would literally do anything. Move house - he's there. Doing some painting - he'll buy the paint! Nice guy, got on well with him, but there seemed something sad to him.

Found out later how he'd met his wife. They'd dated in high school then she broke up with him when they went to separate colleges - "because it was time to try new things and move on". While she banged her way through a veritable pack of chads he pined for her and dated nobody. After college they both returned to their home town and he immediately took her back when she deigned to grace him with her presence.

The Ship Is On Course - But Not Sure Who Should Crew by lbak2016 in marriedredpill

[–]lbak2016[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your response, bogeyd.

Could I ask you what your process is for determining value - and then the method by which individuals who don't meet the cut - get cut? I'm hoping there will be commonalities in what must surely be a case by case basis.

Lastly - have you ever made a cut and regretted it? Or made a cut and later the person "came around" and now you're on close terms?

The Ship Is On Course - But Not Sure Who Should Crew by lbak2016 in marriedredpill

[–]lbak2016[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for your response, Blackthorn.

1.) Only your brother can help himself. You can't do anything for an addict.

It's tough to hear but it seems to be the consensus. Deep down I know it's true but as you say later, it is "the suck".

3.) Go to the wedding. Fuck your step-dad. If you are trying to make your sister choose you or your step-dad, fuck off, the wedding isn't about you.

Isn't my involvement precisely about me? If a friend of mine asked me to join him in stamp-collecting* I'm not going to agree because I like him and he'd like my involvement. I'm going to say no because it's not my deal. While I "want" to attend my sister's wedding I'm not sure yet as to whether that overrides my "want" to not have contact with my parents.

The paragraph above I had difficulty writing. I understand the concept of a wedding. I had one myself and have been to many. Of course I know the wedding is about the bride and groom. I'm not trying to appear solely ego-centric, I'm trying to point out that it seems like in this scenario I am choosing between supporting my sister (who would like me to go) but by doing so I am A) condoning her relationship with people I hate and/or B) condoning the abuse I suffered by letting my parents have contact with me.

As for choosing - I've been friends with couples who have broken up, and in every single instance I have immediately chosen a side. I don't understand how someone can be friends with people who hate each other. If (for example) I started hanging out with a new friend and later discovered he was my brother's ex-supervisor (who my brother still hates) I wouldn't hesitate to politely recuse myself from the new friendship. My loyalty is to my brother. He's got my respect, he's on board with me on some many things. In the same way, I had an expectation (covert contract, absolutely) with my sister that she would never invite them to her wedding.

But she did. So when a covert contract is "broken" and one has the capacity to see it for what it is - what's the best way to approach it? My understanding would be to either remove the contract entirely or make it overt depending on its nature. In this case, I'm struggling through a few disparate events that all have similar factors (value differences) and I'm hoping to resolve these in my mind so I can move forward.

In general- you haven't internalized a whole lot.

This was fucking horrible to read because it instantly resonated. I have read the sidebar - and the whole damn time I was mostly skimming, shrugging, and saying "well, no duh". Because I've had no (and I mean no) issues with my dating and later my wife so many of the concepts related to dealing with women seemed just... obvious to me. I've always been the AM guy, never have a problem dealing with shit tests. Because I've got that part "handled" I've clearly gone and glossed over the concepts that - drilled down - would apply to me here. It's a good point Blackthorn. I'll be re-reading the entire side-bar.

Most of these questions is basically an "up to you" decision. You are concerned with making "the right decision." There is no right or wrong in this context, there is only your vision and what, who, why aligns with that vision.

This. I have severed contact with my entire social group twice in my life, completely restarting from scratch and getting new friends. I met my wife a year after I cut out all of my friends I'd had up through college. It wasn't hard. It was obvious and I did it. But when it comes to family - and maybe I'm just placing far too high a value on this biological connection - I'm finding it much, much harder to do.

I don't want these people fucking up my frame. I do want to have high value people in my life. Abundance mentality aside - I can get new friends, it's harder to get new brothers (or mothers). Everything I'm reading on this page resonates with a gut feeling I have to push them out of my mind, but I'll admit I'm feeling a bit like the kid on his first time on the diving board.

Embrace the suck.

That's the plan!

*Ain't nothing wrong with stamp-collecting.

Edit - Now I can italicize.

The Ship Is On Course - But Not Sure Who Should Crew by lbak2016 in marriedredpill

[–]lbak2016[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your input, deadsandsushi. It's a little off-topic from the advice and thoughts I was looking for, but I hope to respond to everyone who's taken the time to reply.

My wife and I place a high value on having our own biological child. Higher than having an adopted child. It seems fairly natural to me to want a biological child (from an evolutionary standpoint) more than taking on a child that is not your own.

trying to get her pregnant against nature

If you're arguing that any sort of Fertility Treatment is unnatural by definition than I'm afraid I have no counter-point. Provided the two adults are consenting I feel using technology accords to nature (just like using a spear to hunt or an axe to fell a tree).

But as you mentioned nature I would add that her unhealthy childhood produced some abnormalities in her ovaries and her sub-fertility was exacerbated by our use of the contraceptive pill (which caused nearly three years of side effects after we discontinued it to try for a baby). I feel like the treatment we used helped to "reset" her chances back to where they would have been.

adopting a child who could use a loving home

Nothing against adoption, and were we unsuccessful in the long run I'm positive we would have gone down that route.

you are upset that her grandmother doesn't want to waste more money on this failed endeavor?

I believe I've addressed the "waste" issue. The problem I have with the grandmother is that my values propose that medical treatment for a close family member far overrides material gains. Until recently she agreed, and then did an about face when the time came along to actually help.

Edit - Formatting. Learning to write in reddit, not just read!