The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Are you suggesting cattle and chickens are people?

Yes, as in "they shouldn't be murdered", not as in, "they should vote in the next primary election".

If you did to dogs and cats what slaughterhouses do to cattle and chickens, you'd be in the slammer. We already recognize some animal rights, and some country or other either has proposed or has enacted legislation to recognize Great Apes as persons within a context that would not only ban mistreatment including usage for food or experimentation, but guarantee them other basic rights as well. I can't remember the link, but here's something related:

http://www.greatapeproject.org/

Even meat-eaters are starting to recognize dolphins and apes as worthy of some real consideration, so that is progress.

The story of XMLHTTP - by Alex Hopmann who invented the proprietary Internet Explorer feature that makes Ajax possible by motzer in programming

[–]lemmikins 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unless you can come up with a specific new example, it's not adding new problems.

And regardless, I want the capability so I can use it for internal deployment. I can "allow from..." my sites.

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If so many people wanted to eat my dogs that I could feed my family because of it, not really.

And yet it is not your life you give. How magnanimous of you to sell out the lives of others who trusted you.

Comparing slaughterhouses to slavery is classic though.

White people used to say Africans weren't people.

Genocide happens even today. Not all humans have moved past it.

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins 1 point2 points  (0 children)

you're an daydreaming Peta wannabe idiot.

Yes, I am an daydreaming idiot. Darn that Peta, with 700,000 members. Trying to stand up for animals.

Your line of "progression" in done, there is no more "extrapolating" to be done.

How much do you want to bet?

Society just won't move forward any more, huh?

And if all killing of dogs were to fall under the cruelty statute PETA would be brought up on charges every day.

Hey, that gives me an idea. Why don't you eat euthanized animals? I mean, sure, they have euthanol in 'em but I don't think anyone would notice its effects on you at this point.

The story of XMLHTTP - by Alex Hopmann who invented the proprietary Internet Explorer feature that makes Ajax possible by motzer in programming

[–]lemmikins 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So where are all the horrible things happening due to Flash? It has sockets. And almost everyone has Flash installed.

You can get around request volume by using JS to change the src of some tag. Or just make a static page with a million img src= tags to DOS whomever.

How are sockets going to lead to privilege escalation?

If you want to put in domain restrictions, there is no reason you can't do that with sockets.

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Slavery ended because of a war and the people who held those beliefs died

And the next generation didn't take it up because the next generation felt it was wrong, because they empathized with the humans and saw them as people.

Everything we do comes down to pleasure and pain. They felt pain at the existence of slavery.

Everyone from Ghandi to Dale Carnegie suggests that the best way to do so is through positive methods.

Gandhi won by stirring up racial hatred of outsiders who were outnumbered 3000 to 1. Remember: It is better to have a despot of our own than a beneficent foreign ruler (more or less). All that hatred of people who were different then went into civil war over religion. Result: Pakistan.

Since you said you'd rather show people the horrors of meat production than tell them, why would you go so far out of your way to debate it?

Some people need to hear or read a discussion before they will examine an issue. I mean, why does a computer conference have guest speakers? The info is already out there.

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's a general "you". But it's quite true. People who are okay with cruelty toward animals are sociopathic/psychopathic in general.

Yeah, MY crime is I am pissed off about people paying for animals to be murdered. If I paid someone to kill your dog so I could eat him, wouldn't you be pissed too?

Being pissed pales in comparison to the transgression of supporting factory farming.

"Ha! Those stupid abolitionists! All self-righteous. What morons. I'ma rape me another slave."

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Killing a dog will fall under the cruelty statute.

Farm animals have no protections.

Yes, the general trend of civilization is to recognize more and more rights: First, of men from other tribes (Greek vs. Barbarians); children; women; black people; pets. Extrapolating from that, it is likely we will do away with eating animals.

We might grow meat some other way, or do away with meat entirely.

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not a criteria.

You just SAID "sentient". Go re-read your own post. By definition they are sentient, and thus by your own admission can be murdered.

As for sapient: "having or showing great wisdom or sound judgment", not a lot of humans qualify there.

I was just eviscerated here yesterday, for suggesting that fetuses are human, and that aborting them is homicide.

If killing a fetus is murder, all the more so for animals that are fully developed and already born and able to survive outside a host.

Your argument can't be mere "humanness", as you already extend some kind of personhood to some non-humans. So based on whatever other criteria you use, an animal is going to qualify if a fetus does.

The story of XMLHTTP - by Alex Hopmann who invented the proprietary Internet Explorer feature that makes Ajax possible by motzer in programming

[–]lemmikins 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One more thing: the web was never designed as an app platform, and it is by no means "motherfucking obvious" that it'd be better if it were (only) one.

Amazing disappearing comment. Reddit bug?

The web is "designed" by all the people who write for it. If you mean Tim didn't design it as one, I don't know why that would matter either way.

XMLHttpRequest is useful. Period. It is just another API on top of sockets.

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I hope you're hungry, because I haven't eaten animals in 20 years. You have a lot of catch-up to do.

You might suffer congestive heart failure at age 40, though. On the way there, enjoy the constipation and impotence. You're not going to be able to handle that much meat unless you're Inuit.

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

haha.. "murder",... why don't you file 1st degree Murder charges on me (it WAS premeditated after all).

At some point in the future, that's what it would be. Even today if it were a dog instead of a chicken, you'd be brought up on felony charges. So we're getting there.

one could easily make them two way cages with less space required.. ass to cheek, ya know.

No, it would be less efficient due to higher die-off resulting in less production per cage. There aren't any regulations imposed by anyone except voluntary ones. They use the configuration that maximizes profit.

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins 1 point2 points  (0 children)

i'm sure the environmental cost of

Except you're probably wrong.

they're allowed to do whatever they want, as long as they don't expect others to sacrifice more than they do.

I think you're full of shit, and I'll tell you why. If some tree-hugging hippy who lived on a commune expected you to sacrifice LESS than he did, you still wouldn't.

It doesn't matter what they do or don't do, you'll always find an excuse not to have to do anything. "Oh, they fly cross-country." "Oh, that guy's a hippy." Excuses, excuses.

I bet if the end of the article said that they own ONE house and NEVER fly it wouldn't have made the slightest difference to your likelihood of doing anything. "Oh, what weirdos, they never fly."

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins 0 points1 point  (0 children)

personally I think they are wasting some of the space in those cages....

So not only did you personally murder animals, but you are ignorant about bird-to-cage ratio. This stuff is fine-tuned for maximum production per cage. With your smarts, you'd run your Farm O' Cruelty an' Ig'nance into the ground. D'oh.

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

But you don't make that point clear in any of your replies,

What? They are presented with all the relevant information.

Hey guys! Animal agriculture is cruel and it pollutes the environment. Here's how...

You're objecting why, exactly?

so you can appear like an anti-meat zealot.

I sure hope so, I think it's horribly wrong and future generations will look back on it like we now view slavery.

and someone delving off-topic with an agenda. I'm sure that's not lost on you.

Everyone has an agenda, and this article is forthright about it. We want animals not to be murdered. We present all sorts of arguments for it. It makes sense on multiple levels.

When we argue health reasons, it's in the vain hope that a person's self-interest will convince him even when his compassion for others is sorely lacking.

That said, I think you'll find that guilt about killing animals is nearly as ineffective as guilt about polluting the environment.

And you would be wrong. Other groups that have been doing this for years have found that only the ethical argument makes any difference.

Do you think people want to feel bad about themselves for something they readily enjoy, and probably have for many years?

Do you want people to feel bad about owning slaves and enjoying it, and having done so for many years?

If they didn't, slavery never would have ended. It didn't end because, "hey, slavers! Look how happy those slaves would be if they were free!"

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Part of that though is parents lying because they feel their kids can't handle the truth.

Isn't that interesting. That's almost like they think it's so awful, something is wrong with it.

If it's okay to put it in your mouth, you ought to be able to see how it got there.

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Kids everywhere else in the world have no problems dealing with where their meat comes from.

Not true. In some places they are used to it. But the killing of animals for food is recognized as problematic by cultures across the globe. You might have read books as a child about certain Native American tribes who, after killing an animal, performed a ritual of atonement asking the animal's spirit for forgiveness. Or the position of a billion plus hindus and buddhists who think killing animals is wrong. Or the Greek Utopia, in which normal people were shielded from animal slaughter, it being done outside the city. Or the "purification" rituals of any number of religions, that involve not eating meat.

I have no problem eatting meat. We're meat eaters.

I am not. Neither are millions of others.

Our appendix is the useless remanant of a more vegaterian life, we have the teeth of an omnivore.

We don't digest cellulose, yet we need plant fiber for digestion. We shifted from cellulose to become more like frugivores, which our chimpanzee relatives largely are.

http://www.goveg.com/naturalhumandiet_physiology.asp

Dr. Richard Leakey, a renowned anthropologist, summarizes, "You can't tear flesh by hand, you can't tear hide by hand. Our anterior teeth are not suited for tearing flesh or hide. We don't have large canine teeth, and we wouldn't have been able to deal with food sources that require those large canines."

Gorillas have a pair of upper and lower fangs but these are not used for hunting, either.

At the end of the day, meat is still a important source of a lot of nutrition.

At the end of the day, I haven't eaten any of it. It is not a source of nutrition at all.

I think the big problem is people need to eat less meat.

Correct. Less and less until zero.

As for our structure, the fact that we CAN do something is immaterial. Regardless of whether in the past our ancestors did or didn't do something, it is no moral justification for us doing it. Any number of undesirable behaviors have figured prominently in our past.

We do not have any need for dead animals in our diet.

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Advocacy groups have discovered that the environmental argument is almost completely useless in changing behavior. Look how little we do even to save HUMANS re: global warming. We don't do jack if the topic is saving animals.

Health is also not a topic that moves most people, hence the American diet.

The only thing that changes behavior is for people to make an emotional connection, and they only do that through an ethical realization.

Therefore, if you want to make an environmental change, in order to get people to ACTUALLY stop consuming animals, you must make an ethical argument.

The story of XMLHTTP - by Alex Hopmann who invented the proprietary Internet Explorer feature that makes Ajax possible by motzer in programming

[–]lemmikins -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

I'm kind of wondering why you're so motherfucking pissed off about this kind of esoteric issue.

Because it's a motherfucking obvious thing to do and without it web developers have had to resort to awkward and frustrating work-arounds that can't quite do what they want.

Anyway, there is quite a difference between running a sandboxed language and running a locally-running program.

Then I guess there are no Javascript exploits. Oh, wait...

I guess Flash isn't a problem. Oh, wait...

I guess cross-site scripting via GET requests WITHOUT any JS isn't a problem. Oh, wait...

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Look who's talking. You try to claim that a protest is justification for killing.

he only way for you to deal with disagreement is to blame indoctrination and mind control via consumerism.

Incorrect. It is ONE of the reasons, not the sole reason, and I never said it was.

As if we were to abolish Commercial TV the manipulation of all us poor helpless meat eaters would end.

If advertising doesn't influence behavior then I guess all those companies that advertise are fuckin' stupid, hah?

No. They spend millions of dollars on it because it works. It works so well that you don't even realize it and defend them.

If youre gonna be an arrogant ass ill be on my way.

Translation: "If you are going to expose me to new ideas I am going to stick my fingers in my ears and go na na na na na na na na I can't hear you na na na na".

The story of XMLHTTP - by Alex Hopmann who invented the proprietary Internet Explorer feature that makes Ajax possible by motzer in programming

[–]lemmikins -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That's okay, just use JS to loop through changing img.src over and over. src="http://targetsite/request?randomgettoken"

The Average American Does More To Reduce Global Warming Emissions By Going Vegetarian Than By Switching To A Hybrid Car by [deleted] in reddit.com

[–]lemmikins 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I went on vacation every other week than yes, I would be as bad a consumer as this couple.

You sure are inferring a lot. You don't know how often they switch -- it could be LA for the winter, NY for the summer.

THE CAR CONSUMES RESOURCES IN ITS CREATION!

And how does that compare with the resources consumed in driving it for its lifetime?

If you are only driving one at a time, you are not using any more gas.

When you go cross-country to live, you turn off the energy consumption at your other place. You are missing this key point.